This writing comes from my frustration with the Body of Christ accepting any wind of doctrine that sounds plausible. We pronounce this with such vigor, such tenacity. We wear it like a suite of armor, and some would even argue this point to no end. We negate the fact that the bible it self debunks this statement time and time again, but most of us are not bible readers; we are bible hearers. Meaning we listen to the word preached, but don’t search, or read the word for ourselves.
How many times have you heard someone say, or said it ourselves: “I’m just a sinner saved by grace?” While I will admit that it sounds good and it will make for great preaching; it is not true.
1 Timothy 1:15 states: “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners…” If Jesus came to save sinners and we are sinners saved by grace, is Jesus’ coming and death in vain? For the scripture says that he came to save sinners, we therefore say we are saved; what are we saved from if we remain sinners. It is therefore, impossible for us to be sinners and saved by grace. For if we are sinners saved by grace then our sin remains, and Christ’s death is in vain.
Now some have commented that the scripture above is not complete, in that Paul continues on saying “of which I am chief.” Therefore the entire scripture reads as thus “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am Chief.” This scripture they attempt to use to justify this false teaching of Sinner saved by Grace. However, what Paul is actually saying here is “I am the chiefest sinner whom Jesus saved.” In other words, Paul is attesting to the fact that Jesus has saved him from sin who in his own eyes was a chief sinner. Paul in no way justifies a person remaining in sin once they confess they have been saved.
Romans 6:2 states: “…How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” We were buried into Christ by baptism into his death, and have risen in the newness of life in the likeness of his resurrection. If this be so, then we have been redeemed from the death of sin into the glorious life of Christ who knew no sin. If Christ knew no sin, and we are born into Christ by baptism into a new life free from sin, how say we then; we are sinners saved by grace? Being born of a sinless God, if be that the Holy Ghost which is sinless dwells in us; as stated in the scripture: “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God (1 John 3:9). ”
Sinner saved by grace gives us the consciousness of sin therefore, because I am just a sinner saved by grace, my constant falling into sin is understandable, or even expected. It is often used to make others comfortable in living a saved life filled of compromise. Never able to move into holiness because we are sinners saved by grace. Wherefore, we never obtain the fullness of Christ because we live a life conscious of sin.
True believers of Jesus Christ would, and should renounce sin at all cost. They would not want to be associated with sin; even in name. For either we will be sinners, or we will be saved, but we cannot be both.
Can sweet and bitter water come out of the same faucet? Neither can anyone be a sinner and saved.
Is it true that “if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new (2 Cor. 5:17)?” If so then a sinner is who I used to be, saved is who I am now therefore, if I am saved and sinning, I have chosen to sin. Calling one’s self a sinner saved by grace is a choice to keep on sinning, because by its meaning I will never be able to grow past being a sinner saved by grace. Wherefore, sinner saved by grace takes the place of the law which reminds me of sin. Paul said in Romans 7:7: “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.”
Sinner saved by grace reminds me of sin therefore, reminding me of death, because the wages of sin is death (see Romans 6:23). It constantly reminds me of the sin I was slave to and brings me back into bondage of sin. However, if I am simply saved by grace, then am I free from the law of sin and death to which Jesus’ blood cleansed me from. Wherefore, we are not sinners saved by grace, we are simply saved by grace, because the saved that I am has freed me from sin that I should not obey sin in the flesh.
Sinner or saved, you make the choice, but you will have to choose because no sinner will inherit the kingdom of God.
James Bligen's Blog 
James, please reach out to me at your earliest convenience. I believe you will have a strong witness to what the Lord has shown you.
-Only By Grace
Hello Buddy, please forgive me for taking so long to get back with you. I hope all is well.
Please forgive me. I have reached out to you through email, but I guess you did not receive it. Thank you for reaching out to me.
After accepting Jesus as the Messiah, this seems to me to be THE issue that remains. I struggle with it as I read scripture and research, and importantly, pray. But it seems clear to me that if I am truly saved by GRACE, which I believe to be unquestionable, how can I then remain a sinner? And, if I am no longer under the law, as I also believe to be unquestionable, how can I now “sin”? Before the law there was no sin. I do not believe that since I was saved, that I have done nothing that the law would label sin, but that I do not remain a sinner, not by my performance, but solely by the GRACE that holds the law to no longer be applicable to me. I do believe that there has been a transformation in me, which is ongoing, by which the focus is upon my relationship with God, love, and the fruit that God brings forth in and through me.
Bro James, simply put your right on with we are no longer a sinner at the conception of the birth of Christ in us we were transferred into the kingdom of heaven as a saint! Praise God and the problem is the mystery that has to be a revelation in order for one to see it. These ones you argue with are blinded by the enemy through ironious religious beliefs passed down from generations. I never try looking for a fight with these because you are simply arguing a fool according to his folly and you will only make I’m wiser in his own understanding as he begins to try and prove his point by manipulation of scripture.
I try sharing with someone that the Lords return has already happened, the coming of Jesus the judgment day! Give this a try and see what happens. Truth again here is judgment was for apostate Israel and it happened in 70 ad at the destruction of Jerusalem. Everyone takes scripture completely out of context and they try to apply it like the writers are writing to you 2000 years later. Most have never heard of audience relevance! Huh what’s that they say! How can a brother even begin to interpret scripture without the Holy Spirit and audience relevance. Like when Jesus said to His own disciples that some of them standing here today would not taste of death until they see the son of man coming??? They have all been dead along time;) maybe you haven’t tasted this revelation either? Scripture isn’t for the intelligence of flesh to discern but by revelation of the spirit. Most of these out here have never had a revelation and rely on their education to discern.
Grace and peace to you bro!
Praise the Most High for your comment. I also thank The Most High has given you his revelation through the Holy Spirit. Bless you.
Your analysis of the scripture is profound but incomplete. You make to many assumptions as to the personage of those who use this term. From my reading of your explanation, it appears those you refer to as users of this term are not thankful that they can speak this truth. But are on the contrary, trying to in some way to justify still living in sin. All who use this statement are not proud sinner looking do an excuse to remain so. But some of us want to debunk the thought that we have now become better then th owe who still are sinners an are not saved by grace. Grace and truth came through JESUS CHRIST.
I appreciate your reply but would yet counsel that one preface one’s bedtime prayers with the admission of, repentance of, and petition for forgiveness for having rushed through a mumbled prayer of thanksgiving at lunch time because their flesh had come calling, and their tummy was grumbling. I would counsel that they not ignore the reminders of The Holy Spirit at bedtime prayers. For if the apostle Paul was the “chiefest” of sinners, many of us are (likely) not far behind.
I would suggest that you read the Cepher Bible which is actually translated from the Hebrew script.
Yes we are supposed to believe, think, and act as being in the kingdom of God, there is no sin in the Kingdom. For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. We are truly sons and daughters of God when we walk by the spirit and do not the sins of the flesh. If we believe and live from the mindset of I am a sinner saved by grace, we will never fully understand God’s desire for us in this life that he has recreated us to be. Seeking God intimately through love and becoming more of his love day-by-day is the great hope that we live by faith.
That’s right brother James. If we commit a sin, we are no longer “saved”, rather, we are out of community with Jehova God, instantly, and thus in peril, until community is restored with Jehovah God … by confession, repentance, and a petition for forgiveness with Godly sorrow. And also by receiving that forgiveness which is guaranteed according to 1 John 1:9 KJV. Sorry if it upsets your apple cart in some way, but better to learn later than never, and certainly better to learn later than never that to ignore any word or presentation of words, and their arrangement … including the tense they were intended to be presented in … as accomplished in the KJV … is NOT a spiritual impulse from Heaven. Rather, it is a grand deception and production of hell, and must be avoided and resisted wherever it rears it’s it’s ugly head. We must come to the realization that we are never really “safe” until we have survived judgement day, and our names have been found in The Lamb’s Book of Life. That is when we can truly say … thank God I’m safe (saved) forevermore. Not before. The “salvation” of the present moment is provisional only, and fully dependent on confession and repentance of and for our sins as revealed to us by The Holy Spirit as they occur. Again, and once more. There is ZERO reason for the inclusion of 1 John 1:9 and James 5:16 in The Holy Bible KJV if there is no sinner beneath the surface represented by the message of Jesus Christ in Matthew 22:11-14. You may feel free to delete this message also, it is just between you and me and the fence post. May God bless you brother. Have a great day.
No James Bligen, Paul was NOT saying “I am the chiefest sinner whom Jesus saved”. No he did not. Or that is exactly what he would have penned. And that’s the way it would have been entered into Scripture. Unfortunately for your argument it is a private interpretation of the verse, and intended to promote the sense of present sinlessness on his part which you evidently envision as being true of yourself. Speaking of which, are you THE man of God Brother James, or are you simply A man of God like the rest of us who are believers in this blog.
And while it remains true in a certain regard that in times past that Paul might easily have been thought of as “the chiefest of sinners” and forgiven of that much at least, he made sure for purposes of accuracy to pen the reality of both the past AND the present moment also. And he did so by saying clearly and unequivocally in the closing five words of 1 Timothy 1:15 “… of whom I am chief.” Brother James, one dare not twist his words to mean anything other than what he so very clearly spelled out regarding the here and now of his Christian walk. Plus, If he was only a past tense sinner as you seem to insist, and was no longer a sinner in the present sense whatsoever, then there is ZERO reason for the inclusion of 1 John 1:9 KJV in The Holy Bible as regarding our SINS, which God is faithful and just to forgive when we confess them with repentance asking His forgiveness. And, additionally, there would be no reason for James 5:16 KJV either which provides insight into the likelihood of SIN in our dealings with others on a more or less regular basis, and provides the solution for those instances of continual SIN against those around and about us also.
My best advice is this.
Dont forget your bedtime prayers, Brother James including confession of sin. Never ever. And particularly yours if THE man of God business is a prideful direction you’ve taken in communicating your beliefs out and about. Just saying.
I believe you may have miss understood my writing. Paul states and I quote: “This a faithful saying, that Yahusha Hamasiach (Jesus) came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am Chief. 1 Timothy 1:15.
According to the revelation the Holy Ghost gave me, Paul was saying of himself that he was the chiefest of sinners. Not that he was a sinner at the time of the writing, but was referencing the time before he came to Christ.
I can’t believe that even after eight years people are still hung up on the fact that they are not sinners saved by grace, but they are saved by grace, and that one cannot be sinner and saved. Which is what my post is stating by the relevation of Jesus Christ. Now if you will not accept the revelations of Jesus Christ as He has given to me then that’s fine, but I will not and cannot deny what the Lord Himself has shown me in my own life. IT. IS. POSSIBLE. TO. LIVE. WITHOUT. SIN OR SINNING. PERIOD.
Now if you don’t believe that, then that speaks more of your faith than mine. And I have not twisted words, it is your interpretations of my words that makes you think I did. And please never interpret the Word of God, Let the Holy Ghost reveal God’s Word. Because the Word of God is not interpreted, but revealed.
God bless you for your willingness to correct what you believe what is wrong, but there was no need here.
Oh yes. It’s true. It’s true. So long as you’re not sinning you are saved it is true.And when your name is found in The Lamb’s Book of Life you’re home free. That is true.
But until then you are need of James 5:16. Just like me. And just like she. And the “revelation” of THE man of God, (you) is not available in the four corners of the earth unlike The New Testament KJV … for men and women to come to a saving knowledge of the Truth. I do not find your “revelation” quoted in The New Testament at all to be honest. I read what it SAYS. Why don’t you ?
Correct…IF you sin, confess your fault(s) to one another.
Did you now even after James was converted and received the Holy Ghost that he still based his salvation on the Law of Moses? Which means he continued to live as under the Law even after he was born-again. It wasn’t until Paul received the revelation of faith and introduced it to James that James began to understand salvation by faith and not only by works. Although I am not sure he actually put away the law of Moses during his lifetime. But I digress…When you understand the Law of faith, you understand that nothing, NO THING is impossible if one could only believe, which means that if you believe you can live without sinning. If you don’t believe, then you will always sin.
I believe it is possible through Jesus Christ and His Holy Ghost to live without the act of sin. It is clearly your choice not to believe that and to continue to follow the way of weak mindedness and sin.
I’m not saying that we can’t sin, I’m saying we don’t have to sin.
God bless you.
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A note for James Bligens.
As you deliberate within your heart about whether or not to allow my preceding comment about 1 Timothy 1:15 to be published on your blog … may I suggest to you a careful reading of Matthew 22:11-14 KJV.
And after reading that reference might you ask yourself this question ?
If I am not really a sinner beneath the fine linen represented by faith in the atoning work of Christ in my life, and it’s spotless vesture which (alone) causes my presence before God to be acceptable for the purpose of mercy and forgiveness, and made necessary due to the underlying nakedness of the underlying sinner even Paul admitted to being in 1 Timothy 1:15 KJV … will you press ahead with this question by asking yourself just what is needing to be “covered up” here ?
Is not clothing necessary, in the first instance, to cover our shameful nakedness as something needing to be covered for obvious reasons ?
And in the second instance, would not the clothing selected for, say, The Marriage Supper of The Lamb, need to be spotless and wholly acceptable to The King of Kings and Lord of Lords ?
And how shall we so cloth our lustful sinful filthy grave bound fleshly nakedness ? With our own righteousness and avoidance of sinful behavior perchance ? Or will we discover in due time that our own clothing is as filthy rags unto The Most High ?
And shall we simply ignore the teachings of Matthew 22:11-14 KJV believing and declaring to others that there is no longer any sinner within us in need of being so clothed or “covered” and continuously so until we arrive safely upon Heaven’s lovely shore ?
Please hear me carefully.
In no instance, neither in the past, present, or future, are we, or have we, or will we be given a license to sin. But because we ARE sinners sin will creep into our lives in one form or another. And of this we must ask forgiveness of God as The Holy Spirit causes awareness of it in accordance with 1 John 1:9 KJV, and, similarly, we must ask forgiveness of others also in accordance with James 5:16 KJV. There is no other reason that these two verses are included in The Holy Bible KJV other than to communicate reality. Yes, the reality that we ARE sinners, (if we sin we are a sinner full stop) and if we are “saved” it is by grace, indeed, and by our faith, certainly, in the shed blood of Jesus Christ … so as to be clothed appropriately for The King’s Banquet just ahead.
I hope you will read 1 Timothy 1:15 KJV once more in it’s entirety. And reason is this. The Apostle Paul told it like it really is … for us all … and depended heavily on the teaching of Jesus Christ to do so … as in Matthew 22:11-14 KJV.
Thank you for your time
In Christian love,
A SINNER … saved by Jehova God’s grace … and by faith in the atoning work of The Living Jesus Christ, Almighty Jehova God’s Only Begotten Son … given as a ransom for many … and Divine Victory over sin and death and the grave forevermore.
He Lives.
Stephen J. Cook
False, it is only because we believe we are still sinners that we allow ourselves to sin. Yes sin is still in the Word, but we do not have to be effected by sin; if we can believe in the power of Jesus Christ, and the power and authority He has given us that have received his Holy Spirit.
Now He said that we would receive power after the Holy Ghost has come upon us to keep us from sin, and also give power over all the works of the enemy. That being the case I no longer need to fear sin, and if I can truly believe Jesus with no doubt; NOTHING is impossible to me. If you believe that we cannot live in this world as a child of the Most High God and not sin, That’s a witness that you don’t believe the Words He has spoken.
I simply love how we pick and choose portions of The Word of God to support our theory of remaining sinners. I cannot do that, because The Lord has shown me through my own life, that it is possible to live in this life without sin. If I choose to.
Regarding the verse in 1 Timothy you used to reference your commentary, you started off well, but ended poorly (in my humble opinion) by not quoting the entire verse. I tend to be a KJV literalist believing it to be the most authoritative and distinguished version of Jehova God’s message to humanity.
Let us examine this verse in it’s entirety, and ask ourselves whether it is more likely or not that the distinguished talent assembled by King James to produce the KJV would give most careful consideration to each word used in it’s publication; including the present, past, or future tense of a word … as interpreted from, say, the Greek … to be allowed for use therein.
1Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Notice the word “am” if you please. And notice that the use of the words “I am” must always communicate the present and not the past tense as in the words “I was” … or “I used to be” do.
Thank you for your time.
In Christian love,
Stephen J. Cook
The one thing that we must separate in the in the Word of God, is when Paul is speaking of his own accord, and when the Lord is speaking through him. He clearly distinguishes both. In this case, Paul was speaking of himself as he saw himself, not as Christ sees him and all of us through His blood.
If His blood cleanses us from sin, why do we still claim sin? You can choose to sin, but you can also choose not to sin through Jesus Christ. The choice is yours.
Amen! Great job pointing out only a few of the key scriptures that make this case. The Bible is filled with them. You are either a Saint, or you ain’t!
James,
Thank you for your tremendous insight into Scripture- you’re absolutely right! We are holy, righteous, and pure, not bc of who we are but bc of whose we are. Jesus paid it all. As believers, the Holy Spirit dwells within us. Are we sinners? No! The Holy Spirit cannot reside in a sinful state bc God/Christ/Holy Spirit is perfect!!!
Too many believers don’t truly believe or trust who Jesus is. Our identity is in Christ; therefore, we are holy, righteous, and pure – He would have no less.
Amen!
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You’re absolutely right James. We are saved by God’s grace which ended the
the our servitude to sin. We have a new Master to serve and He resides in us through the Holy Spirit. We are no longer sinners since salvation. We can no longer live both sinner and yet saved by grace. It doesn’t goes together.
James, you say that people who believe they are “Sinners Saved by Grace” need to read their BIbles. Let’s let Scripture speak for itself. Here is Paul in Romans 7.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
You are no longer a sinner. What made you a sinner by no choice? Birth! Because of Adam you were given a sinful nature at birth. Now you are righteous! What made you righteous? Birth! You were born again and made a new creature by the second Adam Christ Jesus. Adam made you a sinner and Jesus made you righteous and gave you a divine nature, remember you are born again Spirit holy and righteous. What is more powerful what Adam did who paralyzed and made all of humanity slaves or what Jesus did and freed man and made man righteous. Wow! How awesome and glorious is what Christ Jesus did and what a gift!
Please read chapter 7 in context of six and 8, and you will see what James is saying is true.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
You “were” but “now” , Paul goes on to explain that in the flesh you cannot please God. That’s what Romans 6,7&8 are all about. People take 7 out of context to justify staying in sin. It helps build buildings and pay for sound systems, but never sets anyone free.
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Please also remember that these words were spoken to sinners at the time. These passages was before Jesus suffered, died and rose again from the dead. Proclaiming all power has been given to Him in Heaven and Earth. These words were spoken before the outpouring of the Holy Ghost, which is the same power that raised Jesus from the grave.
If the same power lives in us that raised Jesus from the grave, why can’t we believe that He also has given us power to resist sin and not live in sin? I wonder if some of us believe in Christ the way we say we do.
I needed this. This has helped me so much, words cannot describe. I will try my absolute best to stay sin-free. Thank you, May God always bless you.
Well said, my sister in the Lord M.
Were talking about this. To many believe this junk. Also thank you for the reply you gave that brethren in regards to “perfect” that’s another thing that everybody was going around saying “I’m not perfect”!!!
This is a perfect argument against “once saved always saved” doctrine. Yes salvation is for a lifetime through eternal security but that does not mean we have a right to sin. In a Baptist school, I spoke against once saved always saved and I feel I will be fired if I even bring it up again. Last night, at this church I heard the pastor say, he was saved, a christian and then a sinner……and my stomach turned. How is that possible? I would love to share emails with you about how to talk about this very concept.
I have found that people love their ignorance, and they don’t care if its not scripture based. I have also found that people say the love the Lord, but don’t believe in His word. They believe in their own frailties, and they compare the Word of God to their frailties instead of taking Jesus at His word.
If He said we are free from sin, I tend to believe Him and live my life accordingly. You won’t, unfortunately, convince people who do not want to be convinced. Instead, ask the Lord to lead you to those who want to hear the truth and will accept it.
The best witness to the fact that we are not sinners saved by grace is to live a life free of sin. There may be things in our life that need to be tighten up, but the Lord will take care of those and lead us in the right path.
God bless you. If you wish to reach me and can, at jambsure@gmail.com
Oh, dear James! Because of Christ’s death on the cross that paid your sin debt you are now able to be as sinless as God?! I’ve never met anyone who had the capability of being able to fulfill the broader requirements of Law let alone it’s every jot and tittle! Do you have testimonies from friends, family and neighbors that they have never seen or heard you sin against them, anyone, or God? Pride is ‘my’ biggest struggle with sin. I pray to be as humble as He who went to the Cross for me but alas, I still go my own way. I often feel as Paul that said, after his conversion when he wrote Romans 7, “Who will save me from this body of death……?!” I so long for the ability to serve my Lord in my resurrected state freed from being hindered by the flesh. Maybe one day I will reach perfection as you have but until then Romans 8 promises Jesus, my advocate, is interceding for me until I do. Grace to you.
You are missing the point. The point is, I’m not now, nor have I ever been a sinner saved by grace. I will never be that. Whether I sin or not, I will never be a sinner saved by grace. I am now and will forever be simply “SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH!?”
Now if your faith tells you that you are a sinner saved by grace, then have at it, but I will never buy into this lie; that’s not even scripture to say I’m a sinner saved by grace. I was a sinner, now I’m saved from sin, and it no longer has any power over me, but the power I give it. Forgive me for being foolish enough to believe The Lord Jesus.
No sir, I’m not missing the point. For it is by grace you have been saved (from sin) through faith, and this not from yourselves; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 Would you please answer the question? Do you believe that you are as perfectly sinless as the spotless Lamb of God because that is what you are claiming. Yes, or No. If yes, do you have anyone who will vouch for your fully sanctified sinless flesh? Thank you.
I believe that I am a perfect and sinless as the Lamb of God, because as He is so am I. I believe that I can be all that He said I could be through Him. Not through my own will, or righteousness, but through His death, burial, and resurrection from the dead. I believe all power has been given to the Lord Jesus, and that He has given us all power over the devil and his devices.
I further believe that there is nothing impossible to him who will be childish enough to believe in all that his Lord and Savior has said. I also believe that there is free choice. That it is the choice of a person to believe they can never be what the Lord has commanded us to be, and that the Lord will not force us to be those things.
Regardless if I sin or not, I believe that I have an advocate with the Father who will intercede for me (because He loves me) and if I sin He will direct my heart to repent, and will restore me to where I fell.
I simply believe in His wholeheartedly. God bless you.
James, you said: “I believe that I am a perfect and sinless as the Lamb of God, because as He is so am I.” AND “if I sin He will direct my heart to repent, and will restore me to where I fell.” You are either sin-less or you are not. If you are sin-less, you cannot sin. If you sin, then you are a sinner. There is no such thing in heaven or on earth as “a sinless sinner”. Sorry.
No I am not a sinner. Sinners don’t know, or acknowledge sin, but a Child of God knows when they have sinned. If we sin we have an advocate with the father. That was John’s words, not mine. That statement is in your Bible.
The discussion seems two sided, one says we’re still sinners and the other says we’re not we’re now saints.
Here’s the problem Jeff these that your in discussion with haven’t eyes to see, scriptures aren’t to be understood through interpreting but through revelation! Those who have an ear to hear let him hear! Your arguing with foolish thinking that will only leave the fool more wise in his own misled understandings, the mind of God is to be understood by the mind of God, through a reveling to the human mind by the spirit! This is why some 2000 years later we have over thirty thousand different Christian denominations (divided brothers). To much of the mind of man trying to interpret the prophetic and symbolic language of God.
We who have received the spirit have been made new by the blood of Christ, however we then enter a time of that being revealed to the human mind and the transformation of a persons being from a carnal natural way of thinking to a His way, by the influence of the spirit God. This transformation is a process and along the way a man will sin ( miss the mark) but this sinning in no way makes him a sinner. Likewise a sinner does many righteous things but those righteous acts do not make him a saint and give him right standing before God.
Your beating a dead dog. A dog in the Bible represents religion, brother don’t argue a fool according to his blind misled folly for he doesn’t have the eyes to see you can pray that this religious spirit be lifted and that they may see by a revelation the mysteries of Christ and the kingdom.
God bless!
This is a reply to your no such thing as a sinless sinner….no truer words….but what are we? Are we Christians or are we sinners. Show me a verse in the Bible that says we are both? How can light fellowship with darkness? Paul describes that one cannot be partakers in both applying that Christians live above sin. If you claim that you are a sinne saved by grace, then read 1 john 3. That alone would then suggest that Christ has not even known you. You cant have Christ and then sin…..Romans 8 says there is no condemnation for those in Christ….so clearly that means we are not under the law and are above the flesh. Therefore our lifestyle should first reflect this change and the hold of sin is no longer there. The gaderenes cave man was bound by sin. Jesus set him free and was in his right mind. How are we any different as we were set free from our bonds of sin? Jesus when he healed many would say go and sin no more, not go and sin to yoir heart’s content and my blood will cover it. Clearly God will have worser things to say to you when the judgement comes. I just hope you get over your know it all attitude because I stand 1000% behind James on this. If this makes me look like a fool then ill write it all over my face for Christ because the Bible is my foundation for loving and living a sinless life.
Believe what you will, James. If your own life won’t convince you that you are not a sinless fully sanctified perfected human being no amount of Scripture will either. I pray you will study more and ask our Lord to humble you and to help Him see you as you really are so you can truly repent. Grace To You.
So what are you? A Christian or a sinner? Show me a verse that says we can be both. If faith is not on works lest anyone may boast, then why did Paul boast about his beatings? Clearly we have to look at scripture as us being set apart. Why would Romans 12 exist if we have an advocate? Jesus dying on the Cross is not our license to sin. Remember sin is a choice as we are entice by our own lust. So choosing to commit sin is our choice therefore how come you cant choose life over sin? I find reading the bible more and more is my ammo against fighting sin and temptation. When Jesus was tempted he quoted the Bible each time. When j
It says resist the devil and he shall flee….that implies that I can resist or choose not to. A sinless lifestyle is not impossible.
Since I cannot edit, a correction: Above was to say “I pray you will study more and ask our Lord to humble you and to help YOU see you as you really are so you can truly repent.
See, you confused pride with confidence. I am simply confident in the God I serve. He is able to do exactly what He said He would. IF WE CAN BELIEVE!
Hi Aussie 16. I don’t think you are getting it. For every correct statement that JB is making. Which I believe to be correct and absolutely fantastic you have an argument that completely misses to point. It is not his behaviour that he is talking about even though it does and should effect our behaviour being in Christ. It’s our God given legal position that he is referring to. If you were born into one family and then you are adopted into a new family. Then who’s child are you? You are a part of the new family, legally, positionly and physical. If that child makes a mistake which it will does that mean that it is any less a member of that family? Of course not. Well it’s the same with being in God’s family when you are born again. Is you sin, small s. You say sorry and get on with lift, it doesn’t make you a Sinner big S. I hope this helps.
James, as you said, let god lead us to those who will know and accept the truth. Unfortunate as it is, we can not waste time convincing those who do not accept the truth. Pray that they will one day find their way. It’s sad to see that some remain blind and preach that sinning is accepted. I have repented for my sins and as god works inside of me, I will die sin-free. No one can say that were sin-free their entire lives; although those in heaven can say that they died sin-free. As for the non believers, ““Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.”
Revelation 3:2 KJV”
You will not be able to see god without repentance, there are bible verses upon bible verses saying this. God bless.
Check out Dan Mohler on YouTube
It is by GRACE that we are saved by faith, all will be sinners until we walk through the GATES of HEAVEN. Read first John, he who says he is without sin is a liar and the truth is not in him.
Okay, then what happens with the scripture ” He who is righteous, let him be righteous still. He who is holy let him be holy still.” Or the fact that the scripture says He is coming back for a Church without spot or wrinkle. If sin is a wrinkle, how is it you can remain a sinner until you get through the gates?
To remain a sinner is to deny the power of the risen savior to free you from sin, and if He can’t save you from sin then he is a liar. If you willfully remain a sinner, you have no parts in him.
So let me ask you. Are you saying that you will not strive not to sin, or you are just will to sin, because you are a sinner saved by grace?
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Hi. I understand what you are saying, but as a human I still sin, despite being saved.
Perhaps this comes down to how we define ‘a sinner’?
I know that I am saved. I also know that as a frail human, no matter how faithful I am, my human side comes through and despite my best efforts I still sin. To me that makes me ‘a sinner’ – one who sins. Do I strive to lead a sinless life? Of course!
What it doesn’t make me is ‘a sinner’ – one who lives a life of sin. I do not sin by intention, but because of my inherent weakness as a human. Only Christ was sinless.
The problem is how you see yourself. So a man thinks in his heart so is he. If in your heart of hearts you believe that you can not live without sin, then you wont.
Jesus came into the world to free us from sin. If you can’t live without sin, then that means He has failed. But He hasn’t failed, we did, because we have not believed in the power of the only Son of an all powerful God, but in the power of our own flesh.
Know this, that Jesus is coming back for a Church without spot or wrinkle. That means a Church without sin. If you can’t live without sin, then He is not coming back for you.
I love this argument of you Free- Willer’s!! Let me ask you a few questions? Let’s see where do we start? How about Adam, was he saved?, Or Noah, or Abraham, Lot, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, or Solomon. Where these men saved? Your answer better be YES!!!!! Or you are calling God a liar. Did they sin? Again, it better be YES!!!! David, let’s single him out, the man after “God’s own Heart” The liar, the luster, the adulterer, the murder, the scoundrel, the righteous, the pure in heart, HUH????? What made David pure in heart was the realization that he wasn’t pure. “I’ve sinned against God” Is what David said when confronted by Nathan. How about Peter? Denying Christ 3 times, was he a saved man when doing this? Again your answer better be YES!!! It goes on and on all through scripture, from Adam to the apostle John to all the first church fathers to now with all the men God has raised up to preach His Holy Word. Martin Luther was angry with God, because he was caught up in works, the same as you are. He wanted to be the best possible catholic that he could be, he even admits to shaking his fist toward heaven and yelling at God, “Your laws are too stringent, who could possibly obey them”? Then he read Habakkuk 4 “Behold, as for the proud one,
His soul is not right within him;
But the righteous will live by his faith. And,
Romans
17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.” When he read this, when the Holy Spirit made alive to this Finally Martin could relax, and fully be used by his Creator that God had planned for him.
The apostle Paul tells us in Eph: 2: 2 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
That scripture says nothing about us be sinless, quite the contrary. It says that God is the one doing the saving not because of what we are or what will become, but of His mercy and grace.
You my friend are spouting off false teachings and I pray that the Holy Spirit will awaken you to the truth and bring you also from death into life.
One question. What did Jesus save us from? We were born sinners, but that doesn’t mean we have to continue to sin. That’s my argument. If you believe that you must continue to sin then that’s you. Continue sinning until your heart is content. But don’t disparage myself or others, who believe that through Jesus Christ they don’t have to continue, or remain in sin. Period.
Spiritual salvation didn’t exist until Jesus. Before Jesus salvation came through the law.
Please allow me to share with you what the Lord revealed to me in this matter personally.
I would like to start with a question to all believers. When you were unconverted did you do righteous things? My answer is yes I most certainly did many things that appeared righteous or if you will were righteous acts in deed! This doing of righteous things did not make me a saint!
How ever Once I became saved, converted and transferred into the kingdom, as apostle Paul stated we are now saints and no longer sinners. Now as saints, as the redeemed in Christ we are made rightous by the blood of Christ and therefore as righteous people of God we to will sin (mis the mark). Now in this sinning (missing the mark) just as you were a sinner who did righteous things we are now saints who will sin (mis the mark) from time to time, but this act doesn’t make us anymore a sinner than doing righteous things made you a saint when you were a sinner! So take a deep breath you are truly loved by God and are redeemed in Christ and under His wonderful grace!!!
In romans 8:38 Paul conveyed his pationate belief that their was absolutely nothing that could seperate us from the love of God no living thing not even ourselves!! Please enter into Gods rest Saints and realize who you are in Him and the power of life that lives in you!! You have power over the flesh that once drove you into all kinds of sin. The enemy has been defeated now only must you drive him out and take possession of the promised land……Christ Jesus!!
Blessings!
Jesus showed me this freedom
Years ago. I so appreciate this teaching
I started a bible study years ago and the teacher gets very angry when I tell the group I walk in the new man
I will see where God leads me
Thank you dear friend
A short but thorough fact you make
Sincerely
Suzanne Rothschild
Amen!!! Now, I see that I am not standing alone on Holy teaching. Each scripture you have used disproves being “Sinners Saved By Grace.” Believers are not and cannot be saints and sinners at the same time. The Apostles’ Doctrine includes death to sin and the old life. Anything that is dead is not animated or active; when we died to sin we moved to a different sphere. Metaphorically and spiritually, the world of Life (saved) does not connect with the world of Death (sinner). Jesus did not save (deliver) us in our sins, but saved (delivered) us from our sins. If it is possible to be physically dead and physically alive, then it could be possible to be spiritually dead and spiritually alive. The Bible says we “WERE” dead in trespasses and sin, but made alive in righteous…
Well said. I recently began visiting my sister-in-law’s church and I had a problem with the pastor saying we are sinners. It has really been bothering me and I decided to look up scriptures and found your blog. I’ve been struggling with my decision to continue going to this church, because I can’t get past this one thing. I, like you, do not see myself as a sinner. Saved folks may committed a transgression or iniquity, but no sin dwells in them. When we do wrong the Bible says, “God chastises those whom He loves” and this means His children. When we are wrong we should acknowledge it and take communion leaving that in God’s hands (our “sins” don’t belong to us). The Bible says, “He was wounded for our transgressions…” (Isaiah 53:5). I renew my mind by the word of God and ask God to renew in me a right spirit and a clean heart (Psalms 51:10), but I belong to Him and no sin dwells here, at all. Thank you for your blog.
Amen Tasha, I wish everyone would get this understanding. I would also reccomend that you seek the Lord for where you can go and hear the truth of the Gospel as revealed by the Most High God, and not the interpretations of man. God bless you richly.
Prophet James
I’m so glad to see this. Sinners are led and ruled by their sin. The saved are led by the Holy Spirit. Yes, saved people sin, but the truly saved are truly repentant and asks for forgiveness and guidance. We are not led by sin.
shall it be then, ‘was a sinner but now saved by grace’ ??
Exactly.
Yes. The Bible clearly tells us to be perfect as He is perfect. The way I have not sinned since getting the Holy Ghost in 2009 is I surrendered to Jesus 100% and told Him to take complete control over all my heart,mind, and soul. I told Him to make every thought I have come from Him. I wrote a letter to Jesus surrendering my free will to Him and signed my name. I told Him to write my book in Heaven to the end and then I will do everything He has planned for me-His will 100% for my life. Since I have done this I have been free from sin. Praise God!
Amen.
I see self-righteousness here
Then you are clearly seeing with closed eyes.
Hi Fro, It’s not self-righteousness. It’s living a holy life as we Christians are called to do. Remember the scripture:
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
Those that stay in their iniquity and do not repent and turn from their sins and do not live a holy life will not inherit the kingdom of God as a result of of their “iniquity.”
Well said Corinne.
You say therefore, wherefore, and however way too much. Great article though. Identity is huge. Philemon 1:6 says our faith becomes effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing that is in is. Paul said in Romans 7 that in his flesh there was no good thing. So if the good things we need to acknowledge aren’t in our flesh, they must be in our born again spirits. And if we dont know who we are in our spirits and what we have, our faith wont become effectual, and we’ll never know how to walk in the Spirit (something the Bible commands us to do). You are a spirit, you have a soul, you live in a body. Your spirit is who you really are. You could say it’s your true “nature”. Ephesians 2 basically says that, before we were born again, we had the spirit of the devil, and were by nature his children. But once we become children of God, we are new creatures. We are just like Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17 says that we are one spirit with Him. So his spirit and our spirit actually aren’t just similar, they’re identical. We really are His children! The Bible is full of scripture to back this up. It’s all about a new creation! We’re not sinners! Get born again, it’s awesome! Amen. God bless you.
Thank you for your critic of my writing.
The presumption that one is without sin is not GODS teaching .
Only one perfect soul was without sin and he was born of mary of Nazareth, Jesus
To sin will not condemn your repent to the lord and you will be saved.
So you are choosing to ignore the fact that Jesus Himself stated that if anyone be in Christ he is a new creature, and that He commanded us to be perfect, to obey His word perfectly. As well as the fact that the Holy Spirit is perfection living within you, if you are filled with Him. Jesus spoke those things that be not as though they were, because He knew they would be. The Holy Ghost is our key to living a perfect life with the Lord.
Amen James!!! I too am so sick of the Church saying I’m just a sinner saved by grace ! No where in the Word does this show up. The trite ness of those saying such is the cheapness of their faith walk. I am presently preparing a Sunday school lesson for our class. They all looked at me with contempt when I brought up the fact we are Christs righteousness. He bought us and gave us His righteousness. 2 Corinthians 5:21. We are saints as Paul has entitled us. Romans 1:7 They began their retoric and banter of oh no I will be am a sinner but saved. Saints ? What ? Oh no I will always be a sinner ! One gal said. So it was time for me and Jesus to share how we are to handle the Word of truth carefully. Making oneself accountable. I have enjoyed this blog. It has empowered my lesson! Preparing lessons is the best ! Humbling and with a teachsbke spirit I discover awsome and mighty truths ! My purpose is always to help myself rightly divide the Word and handle it. Help the Body fall in love with what Jesus the Christ did and how much it cost. ( which of course we will never know). To study whose and who are are in Yeshua and His immense love for us and thus rethink of our language and the real reason we live for Jesus.
Dear one
Last week the Bible teacher walked out in anger when I would not say I am a sinner
I am so glad I found this blog. No longer alone
Suzanne
I am late , but I am glad to see that someone other than myself can attest to the fact that once Jesus does His work He does not have to do it over and over again. My Pastor and I go round and round with this one. He says we are sinners saved by grace all the time. So far I am the only one that questions that statement. The question I ask is when do we become a saint? I also state the meaning of a sinner which is a person who practices sin. II Cor. 5:17 says I am a new creature in Christ Jesus old things has passed away, behold all things are become new. If we remain sinners this statement would not be true. Thank You, when God gives me understanding I do not turn from it no matter who doesn’t receive it.
God bless you for you stance on His revealed Word.
Graham Cooke is a great teacher
Who believes we walk in newness of life
Most of us writing here are hypocrites and yet we claim to be saints. If we were in the old testament we should have been stoned to death but in the present times of Christ we are pardoned of our sins everyday. The bible requires of us to sin no more but the we do the opposite and grace covers us and it is for this reason that we become sinners saved by God’s grace.
Yes, but most do these things because they believe that they are still sinners. Not that they are partner with Jesus Christ, filled with the Spirit of Christ that raised Christ from the dead, and can do whatever Jesus did, because they have the Spirit of Christ by way of the Holy Spirit living within them: if they have him.
Bless you.
Any by the way,
Romans 7:14-16
For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
Romans 7:19
For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do–this I keep on doing.
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
It is a great point and one I agree with fully. When you see a butterfly to you say, “Oh, look at that magnificent regenerated worm!” Of course not! You say, “What a beautiful butterfly.” The “saved by grace” is an action – God help me to choose not to sin. Amen!
Great point Robert.
Amen!!! Robert very well spoken I love the analogy!
In Cor. 5:21, the word says “God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.”
Like you said in your blog, we are either sinners or we are “The Righteousness of God in Christ.” The enemy has used the saying of Sinner Saved By Grace to keep Christians in bondage.
No! I may know a few words in Spanish but I’m just a good ‘ol boy from Oklahoma! I am not Spanish!
Although my Spirit is locked in a body of flesh for a season, I am not a sinner saved by Grace! Rather, I have received the Mercy of Christ in me so that I may profess “I Am Righteous” because Christ lives in me!
Can I get a witness!?
Blessed you are Jeff, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you. You clearly described and I know you believe in the power of God.
Amen!!! This is truth you know our father!
This has always confused me!!! Fred111
I know what you mean. I pray my post has helped to clarify it for you.
Please define what a sinner is. It could be a person who makes a practice of sinning. In that case, those who accept Jesus and don’t make a habit of sinning are not sinners. Alternatively, a sinner could be someone who committed a few sins on occasion but doesn’t make a routine of this.
Thanks,
As revealed to me by the Lord, a sinner is someone who has not received Jesus as their personal savior, and engages in sin without conviction. Sinners don’t know they are sinning. They may know they are doing something wrong, but does not relate it to sin. To them it is normal. Anyone who has received Jesus as their personal Lord and savior is no longer a sinner. Though they do have the choice to sin, this does not make them again sinners, but a disobedient Child of God.
Please forgive my late reply, I am just seeing your question today 10/14/15. Thank you so much for your question.
So isn’t a disobedient child of God just a sinner again? It’s possible to lose your salvation by sinning. Why would God want a disobedient child who’s sinning in heaven with him?
I think a sinner is just someone who sins, easy as that. If you’ve never been saved before..you’re a sinner. If you were saved and one night you sinned, that’s still sin and makes you a sinner again until you ask for forgiveness again.
No, a disobedient child of God is not a sinner. If they return to what they used to do they are a back-slider, but they are still children of God who just happen to be sinning. Sinners are those who do not know they are sinning, do not believe in the salvation of Jesus Christ, and have never be exposed to the Holy Spirit. To be a sinner, means you are not a Child of God.
If you have children, and they disobey you, they don’t stop being your children. You correct their wrong and move one; still loving them, still supporting them, but you don’t ignore their wrong doing. This is the way the Lord handles His children. The Child of God can always repent and be restored to the place they fell from.
God bless you, and please forgive my late response.
Amen! This is exactly what you say it is we’re no longer sinners but saints and we can’t be insaved only can we fall back into the habits of the old man. If we do there will be a price to pay for walking in rebellion once more to our father.
James Bligen, I loved your article, but your comment about a disobedient child is still a child of God is not biblical. There is no such thing as a sinning Saint. That falls under serving TWO MASTERS and God’s word says he will spit you out (reject). God’s word says his Wrath comes upon the children of disobedience. That is not one who is SAVED.
Galatians 3:5-6 Mortify (discipline) therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is Idolatry for which things’ sake the WRATH OF GOD comes on the children of Disobedience.
Romans 2:6-9 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life: But to them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION AND WRATH, Tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile
Colossians 3:6 For which things’ sake the WRATH OF GOD comes on the Children of Disobedience
Ephesians 5:6 Let No Man deceive you with Vain Words: for because of these things comes the WRATH OF GOD upon the Children of Disobedience.
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father — Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
This is not willful sin, but being overtaken by sin. If someone is overtaken by a sin, and is not willfully sinning they do remain a son, because it was not in their heart to sin against God.
Thank you for your comment.
NLT. Galatians 2:17-21. “But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! For if I rebuild what I once destroyed, I prove myself to be a trangressor. For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me, and the life which I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” Fellow Christians first John chapter 3 plainly tells us that all who practice sin belong to the devil and all that practice righteousness belong to God. Praise God for the Word of God that stops all arguments of the evil one for it is written. Glory.
No. No more than a child of a parent is no longer the parent’s child, just because he/she disobey they parent. You must study the Word of God for understanding and revelation. The scripture reference you referred to said that “We ourselves have also BEEN found sinners. The scripture is in past tense. We were sinners, but have been transformed from sinner to saint. Seek God for understanding and revelation, not interpretation.
What about the unforgivable sin? I hear so many people’s opinions on this. I personally don’t believe cussing out the Holy Spirit is it, because I’ve done that before, and God has still moved on my behalf. What’s your take on it?
The unforgivable sin, is stating that the Holy Spirit is a demon, or stating that a work done by the Holy Spirit is done by demons. In other words, blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. When the Pharisees said that Jesus was healing by the power of Demons instead of by the Holy Spirit, they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Jesus then stated that that was an unforgivable sin.
I hope this helps.
God bless you.
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be much more useful than ever before.
Reblogged this on Random Manna.
I love the truth, because,”the truth will make you free,” and that is the truth we are saints.
Excellent post. I’m experiencing many of these issues as well..
You’re right on the money. Love it.thank you.
I rate it a 5
Remarkable things here. I am very satisfied to peer your post.
Thank youu a lot and I’m looking forward to touch you.
Will you kindly drop mee a mail?
I have heard this before… I think it was Joyce Meyer’s [teaching]… Well…. I want to follow behind her in rush-hour traffic while drives ahead of me , and we will soon find out if she is a sinner ! You see… this is why we still need feet washing , since we go out into this world and get our feet dirty. We also fail our Lord with , maybe a poor spirit , poor prayer life , or looking at what this world offers in entertainment , which breaks our communion with HIM. I believe we are only out of the sin condition after we are 6 feet under. Alan.
Still A Sinner: Read below Romans 7:18-23 at the bottom…unfortunately sin nature still lives in me, just like Paul, after I am saved. The Bible describes it like a dead body wrapped around our neck that we still carry around until Glory. I love the intention of the original blog point because I think it is sincere, although semantics can be dangerous and very misleading – to lead a believer in Jesus Christ to believe that they have the potential to be perfect while they are still on earth is very destructive and unbiblical.
The Bible is very clear we are only sinless in heaven over and over again. This brings neither fear of or freedom to sin. In fact, accepting the lingering of our sin nature brings into beautiful perspective why Romans eight says to believers – “there is no condemnation to those who belong to Christ Jesus” – who? to those saved that will continue to sin not as a license but as a matter of sin nature…and then specifically says you are freed “from the power of sin that leads to death”. It does not say that you are no longer a sinner or no longer have sin nature – it says you are free from the power of what a sinner deserves.
Romans 3:23-24 also expresses the freedom from “Penalty of sin” – For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God freely and graciously declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins.–free from the penalty of sin…
which is necessary every day until heaven and why ROMANS 8:34 SAYS that Jesus continues to intercede and plead on our behalf every day after getting saved. Blessings, John
Rom 7:18-23 18 And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can’t. 19 I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.21 I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22 I love God’s law with all my heart. 23 But there is another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me.
PS It’s these truths and the power of the Holy Spirit that inspire us to sin less, awaiting that day when we will be sinless…
Mr. John – this is my first time to visit this site, and i did preached on Romans 714-25.. and yes i concur with your understanding of “sinner saved by grace”.. I happened to mentioned in my preaching ” Redeemed Sinner”, and another preacher corrected me that it can’t be… well, I guess, my understanding of the scripture is correct.. I don’t have a formal learning of the bible, I just do my own study of it the King James Version.. well, thanks a lot ..
When we got saved our spirit is the only thing was made perfect, the mind did not get saved our spirit got saved. Now we need to renew our minds daily in the word of God (Romans 12:1-2) NKJV
I Beseech you therefore,brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice,holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. We are striving for perfection as we get into the word of God and let Him renew our minds.
Yes, our spirit got saved, and this is why Paul told us to walk in the spirit and we would not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Our spirits along with the Holy Ghost supersedes the flesh, and if we walk totally in the spirit we will never fulfill the lust of the flesh.
In order to be transformed by the renewing of ones mind, they must make a decision to walk according to the Word of God. Once the decision is made, God steps into that decision with them, and they are able to walk holy and unblaimeable (without sin) in the flesh, in the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. However, just saying that we can’t walk sinless in this world, simply because we are in the flesh; is to deny the power of God. I am sure everyone that believes in God knows that there is nothing impossible for God.
If you continue reading, chapter 8, you can see that Paul was clearly making a distinction between living under the law, chapter 7, and living the new spiritual life in Christ. Ephesians 4: 23 – 24 say we are to put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Why do so many Christians choose to carry around guilt and shame, living under constant condemnation from the devil when Jesus died to make us free from all of that?
I’m amazed, I have to admit. Seldom do I come across a blog that’s
equally educative and interesting, and without a doubt, you’ve hit the nail on the head.
The problem is something which not enough people are
speaking intelligently about. I’m very happy I stumbled across this during my search for something
relating to this.
Praise the Lord, I taught this same subject to my class which is usually filled with Pastor’s and Minister’s along with Bible students. The one hour class went on for two more hours because of the heavy debate from some of the Pastor’s who felt was teaching this wrong even through verification of the scripture’s. My point was as James say’s “How can I be both saved and a sinner? The house had people scratching their heads and turning pages if they had a bible and made others ask for one.
Excellent James, thank you for a better understanding. We must read for ourselves and ask question’s when we need understanding.
Bless you all……………. And I leave you in Peace.
Mother Bey
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This was a breath of fresh air to read. You will find so much post around the net promoting to live in sin. You remain encouraged. There are going to be people who will always disagree to this truth but you keep you eyes on Jesus. This is biblical what you are saying. Continue in Holiness and allow God to use you. 🙂
Thank you so much for your encouraging words. I will continue to speak the word that God gives me in truth, and pray that those that read my blog will be transformed there by. God bless you richly.
Hi JB,
I noticed in one reply that no one can obtain perfection in Christ. Even denying that there were men who did obtain. We had Noah, Job, Asa and others whom God said was perfect. Of course if the only definition of perfect is “incapable of doing wrong “, then we could make such an argument. I am sure that sometime in the life of Noah, he sinned, but it is a fact that at the time leading up to the flood, Noah was just and perfect. God said so! Man says otherwise, therefore making God a liar.
Hi there. Hope my comment can throw some light.
There is a big difference between Old Testament people and New Testament people and that is that God can and does indwell each of us New Covenant belivers. That is why we are under a much better covenant. Today the Holy Spirit, because all the finished work of Jesus, is one with God’s creation, Man again. We are not just forgiven of our sins, but we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. In the old testament, the ones entering the holy of holies in the temple had to be ceremonially the most people. Today we have been cleansed me holy enough for going to dwell in becoming one with us. I believe that is the crux of what the blog post is city. That we are no longer sinners but me pure by the blood of Jesus. I pray this comment edifies you. Blessings!
[few voice to text errors in earlier one sorry!]
Hi there. Hope my comment can throw some light.
There is a big difference between Old Testament people and New Testament people and that is that God can and does indwell each of us New Covenant belivers. That is why we are under a much better covenant. Today the Holy Spirit, because all the finished work of Jesus, is one with God’s creation, Man again. We are not just forgiven of our sins, but we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. In the old testament, the ones entering the holy of holies in the temple had to be ceremonially the most pure people. Today we have been cleansed made holy enough for God to dwell in and become one with us. I believe that is the crux of what the blog post is this. That we are no longer sinners but made pure by the blood of Jesus. I pray this comment edifies you. Blessings!
LOL – does His wife know her husband is sinless? His children also agree?
Exactly, I do believe we are in the sin condition until we are 6′ under. Joyce Meyers also says what has been printed here. I want to follow her car in downtown rush hour traffic to see if she is now sinless , while driving with others !!!
So you are telling me that since you have been saved you have not sinned ! You are a liar . We are saved from the Wrath of SIN !! Yes we should pursue holiness and righteousness. But to say we don’t sin we become a self-righteous liar . I am a saved sinner !!! This does not give me permission to sin ! But I would be a lier like you if I said I will never sin again . Lier !!! our righteousness is not in our works.
God bless you and open the mind of your understanding. When I begin to look after the things of the flesh, yes I have sinned. However, when I remain in the presence of God, and keep my mind elevated on the things of Christ, I am able (not through my own strength) to live holy before the Lord without sin.
If you find this hard and desire to judge me based on your inability to live without sin, that is not my issue. Why not rather seek the Lord to see if it is possible to live without sin?
You say you are a saved sinner. Then nothing is new about you then? Jesus never has and never will save a sinner only to leave him/her a sinner. That is your choice, and it is your choice to make.
God bless you in the choice you have made. I have simply made a decision to believe in the power of God to do anything; including cause me to live without sin in the name of Jesus Christ.
Have a wonderful life of sin.
We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. The temple in the Old Testament was a very holy place. The holy of holies where God dwelt was completely pure. If the high priest who went in once a year was not ceremonially pure, he would be struck down and killed. When our Lord died on the Cross, the veil that hid this holy of holies was IMMEDIATELY torn from top to bottom by an unseen hand. 60 feet wide 80 feet high and as thick as your palm. God had made us pure and could not wait to reveal Himself. We were made pure which is why He can dwell in us today. The mystery of the Gospel is not that our sins we forgiven, but Christ in us the hope of glory Col 1:27. God wanted so long to be one with His creation again like the Father in the prodigal son parable. Once the sin was out of the way, we as saints (holy ones) are pure for Him to dwell in. To admit that we are still sinners (we are not slaves to sin and are dead to sin read Rom 5-6) is to put down the work of Christ.
The point is to understand that unlike those not saved, the choice is ours to live righteous (1 Pet 2:24). There are times I am in the flesh but when I choose to be in the Spirit I manifest the fruit of the Spirit. Unbelievers don’t have that option. But God doesn’t see us in the flesh anymore and we of all aren’t supposed to see one another in the flesh anymore (2 Cor 5:15-17). We are saints and it is said that the term was coined in Christianity. In Greek, the term for “Holy Spirit” is “pneuma hagios”. “Pneuma” from where we get the word “pneumatic” means “spirit”. “Hagios” means “holy”. The term for “saints” is “hagios”. So when the early church read the Word, it referred to them not as “saint” but as “the holy”. No, we are not sinners saved by grace but saints made holy by the blood of Christ. In the we rejoice and give thanks. Of all people, we can choose to walk in the newness of life. And that was given by grace. Without that understanding, Christians will go in circles trying to be better people in the own flesh (like the Galatians see verse 3:3).
I’m not saying we don’t have excursions in the flesh. I’m saying that of all people, we have been set free to walk in the spirit and manifest the fruit of it Gal 5:22. Please contact me for more verses to guide should this speak to you. God graciously bless you.
Yes , Larry , this is why Jesus taught his disciples about feet washing , since we are walking in a sinful world and get our feet dirty every day.
You discredit yourself when you use such an unkind tone. Are you also what he called a “Bible hearer” and not a Bible reader. Read Romans 6. Also in I Peter we are told to “be holy”. I really don’t care much for a religion that says I must sin. If I can’t “not sin” what is the point?
1 John 1:7 NKJV But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1:9 NKJV If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Cleanse from “all sin” and “cleanse from all unrighteousness” seems pretty clear to me.
Do I slip and make mistakes? Sure. Do I live a life of sin? Absolutely not!
1Jn 3:6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
It’s an amazing piece of writing designed for all the online users;
they will take advantage from it I am sure.
Thank you and God bless you for the revelation He has given you. For only those with the revelation of Jesus Christ can receive these writings.
Blessings to you.
1john 1:8.
1John 1:7
I John 2:1, I John 3:6 Good lesson JB!
I would agree with several of the posters above – this seems to me to be an exercise in proof-texting, and also a misunderstanding of semantics verses meaning.
If by the term “sinner”, you imply someone who willfully sins and does not have the grace of God through Christ in their lives, then yes, it would be impossible (by scriptural evidence) to be a “current ‘sinner’ but in a state of grace”.
However, I believe the statement is “I’m just a sinner saved by grace” is more stating that “I am an imperfect person who stumbles and makes mistakes, who breaks God’s law and does what I don’t want to do – yet forgiven by grace through Jesus Christ. I am not perfect”.
If you are arguing the deeper theological debate – that “perfection” is attainable by the saved individual, and that sinlessness is an attainable and sustainable state, (therefore, you are no longer a “sinner”) then I would have to disagree.
This whole argument seems to have as its crux the definition of “sinner”; does it describe –
– only someone who is an unrepentant sinner, devoid of the saving grace of God, or,
– someone saved by grace who still makes mistakes and “doesn’t do what they want to do”, ie. not perfect?
Each one of us who are born again of the Holy Ghost is commanded of Jesus: “To be Holy even as your Heavenly Father is holy.” We each grow to this state by the grace of God, if we believe it is possible.
This post is speaking to the Born-again, fully commited child of God. Who understand that all things are possible through Jesus Christ. Even the perfect sinless state; not by ones own power, but expressively through the power of the Holy Ghost.
I dont know if you will read this. But i must say i agree 100%. The bible say anyone born of God cannot sin. It also says God is light and in him there is no darkness. It tells us a good tree cant bear bad fruit. We all know what the bad fruit is. God also tells us to be holy because he is holy.
While reading my bible i got the same revelation. Honest. I hate sin. So does God. So if we follow him we will leave no room for sin.
To those who disagree ask yourselves: If jesus says through him all things are possible, why would he make it impossible to stop doing the very thing that he hates, which seperates us from him, with the wages being death, not to mention the fact that he said repent from it. (sin)
Great post. God bless.
Thank you so much for your reply, it can be very oppressing to reveal the heart of God when saints want to stay in their sin. I really appreciate your reply.
Where does it say that anyone born of god can’t sin? I think it say that there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus ….it means if you know Jesus as your Lord/Savior you will not want to sin/grieve the Holy Spirit. Unfortunatly it does not literaly means you will never sin.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9
The word of God has been penned by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. So, we need no further revelation that we are no longer sinners (in that pre-Christian state) but we are saints (present Christian state) who are accepted, justified, and covered by the blood of Christ. “Sinners saved by grace” is a false nomer that is popular in these times. It is found no where in the text of Holy Scripture and sadly is used as an excuse by some to allow for frequent , unrepentant actions, words, deeds, or even lifestyles that are deviant to the guidelines of scripture. We do sin as Christians both intentionally and without proper self control, however we are granted the freedom in Christ and instructed to repent of our actions and ask for forgiveness…in which He is gladly willing to accept!
Amen!
Amen!
Romans 7, anyone?
Romans 8, anyone?
lol Matthew I’m with you. I’m a Romans 8 not the carnal man in Romans 7 🙂
Romans 7:1 NKJV Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?
In Romans 7 Paul is speaking to the Jew who is trying to attain righteousness by works of the law.
When you apply Romans 7 to the believer look at Romans 7:25 – 8:1. There you will see there is a remedy for the condition seen in chapt 7. Also look at Romans 6 and Galatians 2:20. To call oneself a “sinning Christian” is to deny the solution to sin provided by Christ.
No reasonable person will claim a sinless perfection but instead freedom from sin. Everyone makes mistakes. No genuine
believer lives in sin.
I’m saying that those who know the Lord in the partning of their sin, and still willingly sin make a choice to sin. If you are in Christ you do not have to sin, because you are no longer a sinner.
umm I immediately am reminded of
romans 3 23- for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God…and are justified by his grace as a gift, through redemption that is in CHrist Jesus.
Also, Ephesians 2:9 for by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.
and finally, what I think completely dispels your take on sinner saved by grace are these from the Word of God :
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1 8_10)
We have sinned each and everyone, but we do not have to continue sinning. This revelation is in the word of God.
A holy God who can not stand sin, how will He save you from sin and leave you a slave to sin?
I know several people who hold to your belief, I know them well enough to also know not one is without sin. I disagree with your interpretation of the “slave to sin” scripture in that not being a slave to sin does not equate to being sinless.
One thing you must understand is that I interpret nothing. All I have,stated has been revealed by the Holy Ghost. If you will not believe, then you will never receive it. Therefore, you will continue to have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof.
Imabaldwin, Paul also said in Romans 3 that there is none who seeks after God. Paul was speaking of Israel who continuously rebelled. Not for those who are redeemed through Christ.
I love this post! My wife and were just talking about this subject last night and how it is a trick of the enemy to keep Christians contained in this world. I do not believe that I am a “sinner saved by grace”. I was however saved from the prison of sin by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. This type of mindset is detrimental for a many number of reasons. The first is that it affects our confidence in approaching our loving heavenly Father with boldness. We are invited by God himself to continually come boldly to him (Eph. 3:12, Heb. 4:16, Heb. 10:19)! Having a “sinner saved by grace” mindset simply reconnects us back to the law of Moses. It mentally puts us right back into the old covenant of which we know is steeped in self effort. As new covenant believers, we must understand that through the Blood and sacrifice of Jesus, we have been brought into a new covenant that is totally mediated by Him. (Read the book of Hebrews and especially focus on Chapter 8). God in his great love for us has chosen to merciful to us for the sake of His son, for He honors His Blood above all! (Heb. 8:12, Heb. 10: 17, Ps. 103: 12, Col. 1: 19 – 23, Eph. 1:4 – 8, Rom. 5:6 – 11) These are just a few foundational passages in Scripture that begin to show us how God truly sees us! Through the Blood of His son, He sees us as holy and righteous! We must continue to ponder these truths until they totally consume our thinking. As Christians, we have to realize that a major fight of ours is with religion itself. We have to pay more attention to our mindsets. Just because Grandma and mama said it doesn’t make it the truth(Rom. 12:2). I encourage everyone on this blog to let the Word of God become your only and final authority! One last scripture, ” For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.” ( NLT) The KJV says it this way, “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him”. That’s good news for all. God declares us righteous because He is good and He loves us more than we know! Thank God for our Savior, Redeemer, and King Jesus! He is truly worthy of all praise and then some!
I am thankful that the Lord has revealed the truth to you. We are no longer sinners, but the righteousness of Jesus Christ through faith.
Thank you for your comment.
I’m in totally agreement with you. The Bible is true. The Word is right, it can’t be wrong. I too get sick and tired for hearing so many so called Christians say that “we are sinners saved by grace.” This makes me sick to my stomach. We are either saved of we are lost. There is no such thing as a saved sinner. I challenge folk to read I John 3: 8-10. But Revened, don’t let this upset you. Clearly, you are of His Spirit and you see things through the spiritual eye. The Bible goes on to say in John 14:17 says: “Even The Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”
I may never get to know, meet or see you. However, God is please that you are taking a stand by standing on His Word. May God continue to bless and keep you in His permissive Will? I would be concerned about the Unbeliever, but that’s it. You also recall in the 17th chapter of John, Jesus did not pray for the world. Instead, He prayed for those that the Father had given unto to Him. He asked the Father to “Sanctify the through the truth: thy word is truth.” Finally, folk love to talk about salvation, but they don’t like to talk about sancification. Jesus told Nicodemus, “Ye must be born again.”
Thank you so much for those encouraging words. I thank God for you.
Love this! I googled searched this out as I deal with this topic a lot and you are correct in that even suggesting to people we can not at our core be both, one gets accused of being too lofty, denying the need for Jesus, or that I just kicked thier dog. If I mentally have an anchor to sin, I will never be truly free from it. Ill check more if your blogs when I have time. Thanks for this.
Howard I am encouraged by your comment. If you read some of the responses to this post I have pretty much been called a heretic, for believing that we can live without commiting sin. However, I will gladly be pursecuted for the truth of the gospel, and I am thankful that we share in that.
Thank you for your comment.
I have just found your blog and this post of yours is SO TRUE! When will people (believers) wake up and realize they aren’t sinners, they USED to be – but no longer, Jesus defeated The Devil, Death, Sin, Sickness, Lack etc on the cross when He died and rose again! We are new sinless creatures, NEW CREATURES 2 Cor5:17. The devil wants believers to be fooled into thinking they are still sinners, coz he can play on that, he blinds their eyes from God’s marvelous truth. We need to pray for their eyes to be opened to who they are in Christ – Sinless, forgiven, set free, etc.
I also write a faith blog on wordpress.com it’s called theforeverlife.wordpress.com if you would like to follow, I will be following yours from what I’ve read there’s some good stuff on here.
Thank you so much for your comment. So many are blind by the fact that we are in the flesh, but not of the flesh nor do we mind the things of the flesh. I thank you greatly, it is not always easy to stand on the truth when so many are blind.
This post seems like a real over reaction. I agree that we get carried around with winds of doctrine but I don’t see this as a doctrinal issue. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say I was a sinner and I am now saved by grace. But to say I am a sinner saved by grace is, to me, acknowledging what I was and what Christ, through his blood, did for me on the cross. It in no way binds me to my past sin nor keeps me in a state of sin. I want everyone I meet to know that I was a sinner just like them and graced saved me. By the way Paul said, O wretched man that I am….Not wretched man that I was. I no longer consider myself a sinner but brother I was and I am now saved by grace.
I believe you just stated what my post is saying. We are not sinners saved by grace. We are simply saved grace.
Wretched do not mean sinner?
I think sinner is a wrong title/identity for Christians. A person who sins should not be called sinner, just like when a person lied under certain circumstance should not be called a liar, a person who failed a test should not be called failer, etc. Do that to our children certainly do a great damage to them, and we certainly don’t want to be treated that way.
I’m sorry James, but all I see here is a lot of proof texting of scripture. I think you would do well to hear some clear exposition of scripture on this subject. There are a few trustworthy expositors out there, John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, and Paul Washer come immediately to mind. To those of us who have repented and put their faith in Christ….are sinners saved by Grace. By Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone. God Bless, but please listen at least to John MacArthur’s teaching verse by verse through the entire book of Romans, I believe you will change your stance.
If you desire to hold on to your sinful state and be saved. Then more power to you
There is no sinless perfection. All my sins; past, present, and future were paid for by Christ on the cross.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10 ESV)
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:1, 2 ESV)
‘But if anyone does sin’….dude that is future tense. How can you get around that?…it doesn’t mean that we live in a condition of willful sin, but that if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus. It’s like Him standing there saying to the Father, ‘I paid for that.’
Do we sin that Grace would much more abound? Nope, just like Paul said. Only unconverted goats within the Church would use Grace as a license to sin. My sin breaks me and drives me to my knees in repentance and is a reminder that I can’t get into heaven based on my own works….no matter how sinless I may perceive them to be….
I Sir choose not to be a sinner saved by grace because it is not supported by scripture. I choose simply to be saved by grace. I agree with you that if a man sin we have an advocate with the Father. However, my post deals with constant, willful sin of the Body of Christ who have used this false teaching of Sinner Saved by Grace to justify their continuance in willful sin. My post does not deal specifically with those overtaken in a fault, who sin because they were overtaken and not living a life of sin.
I have chosen not to respond frequently to comments on this post, because people seem bent on continuing to live a life of willful sin and creating any excuse to continue in it. Sinner Saved by Grace is one of those excuses. If anyone chooses to be a sinner and saved then that is between them and God.
I just don’t understand why Jesus would die to take away my sin, then leave my sin, and save me over my sin if in fact we are sinners saved by grace. I don’t understand why I had to repent of my sin, if Jesus was going to leave my sin and save me anyway. Doesn’t make much sense to me but to each his own.
I will allow you to be persuaded by your own mind as says scripture: “One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind” (Romans 14:5). Please allow me the same courtesy.
Thank God for this pose because in a weaken state I made that statement just this week and the Lord convicted me. While reading this post He reminded me that I am saved because I accepted Him as my Savior. I am not a sinner no longer saved by grace. I am saved, and when I sin, I ask for forgiveness and I be honest with Him and ask Him to help me repent. There are things in me that I hate and wish I don’t do. I refuse to make excuses for my sins, but I go to the Father and ask for forgiveness and because we have an Advocate in Jesus, He forgives us. I believe Him to cleanse me from all unrighteousness. You see, I was molested and there are so many things still in me that came from that act. Some things I’m not aware of. Do I use that as an excuse; No way. But it is the reason why I act the way I do at times. With the Lord Jesus, I have gotten better and have grown. I am free because I’m at a place where I am allowing Him to cleanse me. I was so messed up, I didn’t even trust Him. So many think that’s easy. For me, it took time. But post like this keep me on track.
James, I have not read every word you have written. However, what I have read is so right on! “We ARE sinners saved by grace” Is not supported by the Holy writtings!
Kenny Carpenter
Thank you so much for your comment, you won’t believe how many people believe that they are sinner and saved, and will attept to use scripture (out of context) to prove their point. Kenneth, it is a pleasure to hear from someone who knows the truth.
1 John 1:8 NKJV If we say that we have no sin, — This passage is not referring to sin as an act but sin as a condition. Romans 7:25 and Galatians 2:20 speaks to a solution for the condition.
Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. This is one of my favorites bc it is God, through his spirit and word that reveal things to us. So i don’t spout off lightly when i believe something it is from the Lord.
Just a few scriptures that I like. Proverbs 3: 5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. Proverbs 4:23 Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.
I pray you give that some thought Chris Tan
And all of that that you posted is what is going to happen during the tribulation period. The Church will already be taken out of this sinful awful world and the Spirit of God will not be striving with man any longer. Then the resposiblity of spreading the Word will fall back on Israel. So the scriptures you had reference to will actually be people from the nation of Israel, not us Gentiles.
And I bet yall believe you can still have visions and prophecy today too. Like I said, we will agree to disagree and I pray that God show you the truth.
Acts 2:17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. 21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’ (NKJV)
You know, it’s not only that last line in V21 that’s valid. Apart from salvation, verses 17-20 are still valid.
1 Cor 12:28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. (NKJV)
Yes, some will say chapter 13 is the more excellent way, but that doesn’t negate what chapter 12 says. We still need apostles, prophets, teachers, miracle workers, healers, helps, administration and tongues.
Just because we don’t see it doesn’t mean it is not true. Scripture is as valid today as it was then. It’s just most of us Christians who are living in Nazareth, the land of unbelief. Many of us Christians have chosen to believe only what clicks with our limited intellect, which explains the sad state of many churches today.
We need to bring the level of our experience up to what scripture says through our belief, not bring what scripture says down to the level of our experience through our unbelief. The latter requires no faith whatsoever.
I pray that you do give that some thought, Ladner.
I don’t profess to know anything else – except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. It is written that He – Jesus died for my sins, past, present and future. In John 17: Jesus prayed 9)”I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[b] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[c] that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.
13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by[d] the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
In Phil 3: it is written that He is perfecting me unto the coming of Jesus Christ. I believe that if we concern ourselves with working out or own soul salvation, that we won’t get so caught up in commenting on what the scriptures mean to others. I have no heaven or hell to put anyone in, but believe that the writers of GOD’s HOLY WORD as it has been presented to us, are inspired by GOD and in HIS WORD, it is written that “HE IS NOT THE AUTHOR of confusion”. When we get so caught up in our own beliefs that we are trying to condemn those who don’t believe the same…I say as James Bligen so eloquently said as he quoted one of my favorites and I paraphrase, “let a man be persuaded in his own mind – what is true after he has read (seeking GOD for understanding)GOD’S WORD.”
While blogging is a tool to find out what others are thinking on a subject, it, like everything else when used the wrong way, can do more harm than good. Let every man be a liar and GOD BE TRUE!
1 Corithians 15:50, 52-57.
Now this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ
Our sin nature is in the blood. As long as we live in this life we will sin because of the blood of Adam runs in our veins. Now just because I am saved doesn’t mean I have a license to sin, but understand that it is a battle that is fought everyday. Am I going to sin after salvation? yes because we can sin in thought or deed. But at the same time we do have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the Rightous. The only way I will over come sin is when God the Father through Jesus Chrst our Savior gives my my INCORRUPTIBLE body. Until then sin will be in this world and in our lives.
Ladner, Sin is not in our blood. Jesus came in ‘THE SAME’ flesh and blood as us read Hebrews 2:14. Jesus is the Seed of David. If the seed is corrupt so was Christ. God took David’s Seed and brought forth a righteous branch that of Jesus Christ. Here are the scriptures:
The LORD has sworn in truth to David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit OF YOUR BODY will I set on your throne – Psalm 132:11
And when your days be fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up YOUR SEED after you, which shall proceed OUT OF YOUR BOWELS, and I will establish his kingdom – 2 Samuel 7:12
Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will raise unto David a Righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth – Jeremiah 23:5
In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land – Jeremiah 33:15
Romans 1:3,4 declares David is Christ’ father which says… ‘Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was MADE of the seed of David according to the FLESH; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of Holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.’
These scriptures in the NT below declare Christ as David’s son even Christ himself saying this…
‘He (JESUS) shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of HIS FATHER David’ – Luke 1:32
Has not the scripture said, That Christ comes of the SEED OF DAVID, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? – John 7:42
And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. OF THIS MAN’S SEED has God according to his promise raised unto Israel a SAVIOR, JESUS – Acts 13:22,23
2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the SEED OF DAVID was raised from the dead according to my gospel
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the ROOT and the OFFSPRING OF DAVID, and the bright and morning star – Rev.22:16
Mary was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit that is not the same as saying THE SEED came from the Holy Spirit. God took a rib from Adam made woman. God took a Seed from David and brought forth a ‘Righteous Branch’ his name was: JESUS (Jeremiah 23:5; Acts 13:22,23).
Scripture also says… ‘And one of the elders said unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the ROOT OF DAVID, has prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.’ Rev.5:5. The word ‘Root’ is define as where the SEED originated from and scripture states it came from the body and bowels of David – Psalm 132:11; 2 Samuel 7:12.
This is an exciting subject and I always like to know what ppl think and why? It sounds good but it doesn’t hold any water (see articles intro). The (er) on the end of sinner places you in a committed practicing mode. Although we may “sin” we aren’t not sinners because of our new nature yet we a clothe in this earthly body. Yet, above all we have an advocate with the Father who is able and just to forgive. I don’t let no one hang that line (I’m a sinner saved by grace on me), I know better. It sounds good but that’s as far as it goes with me.
Since we will not agree on the former topic, let me ask you some questions then. How can you get saved, who can be saved, and do you believe in predestination?
bottom line is we still sin after we are saved. We make mistakes. If you think you don’t sin then you are calling God a liar. I know what the scripture says and I question your understanding of the Word of God. There is no way we can become sin free in this life. We are going to make mistakes and fail, but what the Word of God teaches us is that when we do sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Rightous. I will pray for you that God reveals the truth to you.
You are actually calling Jesus a liar, because Jesus said “All things are possible to them that believe.” IF you say it is impossible for us to live without sin in the flesh, then you have made Jesus a liar.
If you want to continue to live in sin, and deny the power of God then that is your choice. Let every man be persuaded in his own mind.
but there are 3 other categories of sin. We have the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, and sins of omission. Even though you may not sin lusting in the flesh, you still sin. Again I will direct you to read 1 John 1:8-10. The bible does not contradict itself. It is perfect and infalliable. These verses say that if we say we do not sin the truth is not in us and that we have made God a liar. So my question is this, are you calling God a liar saying that you do not sin?
It doesn’t matter the sin, we still must renounce them, because no sin shall enter the Kingdom…None! No, I’m not calling God a liar, I’m calling your understanding of scripture a lie, you can’t take one scripture to keep one in bondage to sin. John 1:10 clearly states: “If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
I did not say that I have not sinned, I affirm that I do not have to sin. Believing that we are born of sin, and therefore, have to continue to sin simply is not true. 1 John 1:7 states: “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
Furthermore, 1 John 1:8-9 “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Again these scripture says nothing about staying in sin, but that once we repent of our sin, God is faithful to forgive our sin and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. To cleanse means to wipe clean, or to cause not to be filthy which sin does make us filthy and keeps us in darkness. We therefore, can’t choose to walk in the light and keep sin with is a fruit of darkness.
If you desire to remain a sinner, then do so, but I will choose the Lord and renounce the hidden things of sin. It’s your choice.
I say “Amen” to James. I think the point here is that we no longer have a sin nature. We should have no more consciousness of sins – those who were under the law using the blood of bulls and goat did, which is why they came back continually:
► Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. (NKJV)
But because when Jesus said “It is finished”, it was:
► Heb 10: 11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, (NKJV)
No point reminding ourselves of who we were, but spend time to find out who we are in Him. I am cleansed, made righteous, with the ability to
► Heb 12: 1b …lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, (NKJV)
Paul said that we…
► 2 Co 5:16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. (NKJV)
Sure – in flesh, I am not perfect, but that’s not what I regard. We are new creations. Paul even calls the Corinthians “saints”. See how he himself sees them?
► 1 Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. [11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.] (NKJV) (brackets mine)
In many places, he refers to sin with reference to those in the world, not saved, refers to those outside as “disobedient”, “sons of disobedience” and those in the Kingdom on the contrary, as the ones receiving an inheritance. If we receive no inheritance, then we are not sons. If sinning can cause us to have no inheritance, then we are back to works.
(Rom 11:30, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 2:2-3, Eph 5:5, Col 3:6-7)
► 2 Co 10:6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled. (NKJV)
No. Disobedience belongs to those in the world The obedience we have was fulfilled by Christ, who came not to do away with the law but to fulfil it. (Matt 5:17)
The full manifestation of this will come at judgement day. Meantime, we live by faith in the Son of God and His finished work. (Gal 2:20)
yes no sin will enter the presence of God because we will have a glorified body when we leave this life. Even though we are saved we still have to battle daily with the flesh, sin, in this life. Read this from Romans 7:19-23.
Romans 7:19-24
King James Version (KJV)
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Err… read on…
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! [Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!] So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 [For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.] (NKJV) (brackets mine)
A big part of this comes from the understanding of Spirit Soul and Body. See my blog at
http://christanatwork.blogspot.com/2011/11/one-spirit.html
Chris
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16
This is why Paul teaches us to walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. It has been my experience that when you walk after the spirit, as well as in the spirit you do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16
Ladner, ROMANS 7… Gives us a description of what occurs when the mind of an unconverted sinner is under the conviction of the law. Paul said, ” For I was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. The man in Rom 7 was not free from sin and therefore he was not a Christian. Paul also stated there is no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. Yet the man in Rom. 7 was under condemnation and therefore needed to be saved (Rom 7 24-25) And Paul said, ” to be carnally minded is death in Rom 8:6, yet the man in 7, I am carnal, sold under sin. Rom 7:14 therefore the man in 7, did not have eternal life and finally, Paul said that as a converted man he lived with a good and pure conscience (Acts 23:1, Acts 24:16, 2 Tim 1:3,) The man in Rom. 7 was described as deeply disturbed by his conscience, Therefore the description given in Rom 7, was not of the converted life of Paul.
Paul does speak about his conduct as a Christian in the following scriptures & quotes: Acts 23:1; 1 Thess.2:10; 2 Cor.7:2; Acts 24:16; 1 Cor.9:27.
“Then Paul, looking earnestly at the council, said, “Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day”(Acts 23:1).
“You are witnesses, and God also, how devoutly and justly and blamelessly we behaved ourselves among you who believe”(1 Thessalonians 2:10).
“Open your hearts to us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have cheated no one”(2 Corinthians 7:2).
And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience VOID of offence toward God, and toward men (Acts 24:16).
But I keep under MY BODY, and BRING IT INTO SUBJECTION: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
An interesting article: http://richielewis.com/which-jesus-did-you-meet/
Amen and amen. That’s so true, what the article says.
John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. (NKJV)
We have Jesus’ glory, and we are loved by God the Father just as He loved Jesus.
Actually, there’s a lot of emphasis in the New Testament about focussing on the right thing rather than trying to avoid focussing on the wrong thing. Even David in Ps 1:1-3 caught this – his delight is in the Law of the Lord, as the solution to sin. In the Parable of the soils, the seeds that were choked weren’t even choked by sin, but by cares and the deceitfulness of riches. These put the focus of Christians away from following Jesus. They were saved, but did not bear fruit. In many passages, we are told to lay aside sin, weight and sin (Heb 12:1-2 for example) etc. Really, at the end of the day we should be focussing on the “Who and the why” of scripture. Who Jesus is to us, who we are in Him, why He saved us and why we should follow Him. Much of Christianity is too busy with the “What and the how”. What should I do as a Christian and how – 20 ways to avoid adultery that sort. Jesus gave laws only to those who asked “What and how” to gain eternal life. To those who simply trusted in Him, He (“Who”) was THE Way, THE Truth and THE Life. Jesus didn’t say that He knew the Way, had the Truth and could give Life. All three are embodied in knowing Him (John 17:3). It’s not about us anymore – it’s about Him Gal 2:20. Yes, we used to be in sin, but we have been washed by His blood and made on with Him and unless I am still going by what I do (works) I should not have anymore sin consciousness. I’m not advocating sinning, but no more consciousness of it. Sin will still have its consequences – smoking still causes cancer – but it won’t send Christians to hell. Whom the Son sets free IS free indeed!
out of the heart comes evil thoughts, murders, envying, and strife. Matt 15:19
Ladner, The Saint’s hearts are pure. While the sinners are vile. Here are the scriptures:
Proverbs 30:12 There is a kind who is pure in his own eyes, Yet is not washed from his filthiness.
Psalm 24:4 He that has clean hands, & a Pure Heart; who has not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully
Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Titus 1:15 Unto the Pure all things are Pure: but unto them that are defiled & unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind & conscience are defiled
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing you have purified your souls in Obeying the Truth through the SPIRIT unto sincere LOVE of the brethren, see that you LOVE one another with a Pure Heart fervently.
1 Timothy 1:15 Now the End of the Commandment is LOVE out of a Pure Heart, and of a good conscience, and of Faith unfeigned.
For me the phrase,”I’m just a sinner..” denotes humility to God,No amount of me,or what I do will gain me eternal life. Only Through Christ work of Redemption on the Cross and His precious blood.
The phrase “I’m just a sinner” is a false teaching and is not found in scripture however, I have seen people take scripture and attempt to match it to their own views. The scripture does say to let every man be fully persuaded in their own mind. I therefore am fully persuaded that Jesus saved me from sin and though we have the choice to sin, he has given me power not to sin. If ones faith says that they will always be a sinner, then the cross of Christ is of none effect to you, you are yet in your sins. Know however, that no sin shall enter the presence of God.
read 1 john 1:8-10. We can and do sin after we are saved. these verses say that if we say we don’t have sin in our lives we are a liar and the truth is not in us. It also says if we say we have no sin we make God a liar and his word is not in us. Yes we are sinners saved by grace and yes we do sin after we are saved. It should not be a willful sin because the bible also tells us after we are saved if we sin willfully there is no more sacrifice for those sins, that we are going to be punished for those and possibly lose some of our reward. Hebrews 10:26 and 1 Corithians 3:12.
So a man thinks in his heart so is he.
Ladner you are not understanding 1 John 1:8. It is talking about sin as a condition, the depravity inherited from Adam not sin as an act. Why would Jesus tell the woman “go and sin no more” if that is impossible? Do you not believe 1 John 1:7 that if we walk in the light He can keep us from sin. Is your God that weak that he cannot keep you from sin?
I have a friend who buys that sinning Christian business and what it has done to his family has been horrible to watch.
I say a BIG AMEN to your thought’s James. We have had our sin nature removed. Now all we contend with is the flesh. Not even us, but the Spirit. Caught in the crossfire is the brain, the will. Do we sow to the Spirit or to the flesh? All we need is the Word of God to renew our minds.
The point is not so much that we don’t sin anymore, but that that is NOT our nature. We were of the devil, but now the Holy Spirit dwells in us, is one with us, will never leave us. The important part it to understand the Spirit, Soul, Body nature of our beings. We know no man after the flesh.
i think of it more as saying where i was and how i got to where i am. i could do nothing to get to god. the only way i can have a relationship is by the grace he provided. it’s an attitude of humbleness and remembrance. if i have that attitude it will drive me to be holy in my life because of where i was and how i got to where i am now.
As a site owner I believe the material here is reallymagnificent. I thank you for your time. You should keep it up forever! Good Luck.
For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH, and that NOT OF yourselves: it is a GIFT of GOD; Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph. 2:8-9
The Bible does not say that we stop being sinners, it says that after salvation, God has forgiven us of our sin. You can be saved and still choose to sin: genuine Christians do it all the time. We ARE sinners saved by grace. Before salvation, we were sinners. Jesus paid the PENALTY for our sin. Salvation does not keep us from being sinners on earth, because we still have our sinful flesh. In Heaven we will no longer be sinners, because our sinful flesh will be taken away. God, in saving us, has freed us from our sin, so we are no longer slaves to it. It is a contradiction to our faith to sin, but does the fact that we contradict ourselves make us any less saved? No. Salvation does not make you perfect. God does. God saves you, but that is only the first of His works to make you more like Him.
Please find for me in the Scriptures where it says we are sinners saved by grace, and please do not attempt to piece words together, but make sure it says it verbatim in the scripture you choose. Because unless someone can show me by scripture I will never believe that I am a sinner saved by grace.
Why did Jesus tell those he healed to go and sin no more, if it is impossible for us not to sin, and are you saying that we shouldn’t desire to stop sinning? Simply because we have the choice to sin we should what…Just continue to sin?
This is response to you saying that we still have our sinful flesh. I’m coming right from the scriptures and not my own opinion. Colossians 2: 11 & 12 states, “When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure, Christ performed a spiritual circumcision- the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. (NLT) Please allow God’s word to be your only and final authority! Be blessed!
ok James,
I am filled with God’s Holy spirit.. I am not into theology..I serve the same Great God you say you serve…and the best thing for any of us to do is to keep on serving God, because going back and forth is not going to solve anything..I do not down you for your views..If you believe that you will never sin again, that is between you and God..and you would be at peace about it..and leave the subject alone if you actually down in your heart believed that..
For I am at peace and assured by God’s word, that I am a child of God ,God Almighty who heals my pain, and answers me when I call..and remember the bible says A righteous man may falls seven times, but the LORD delivers him from them all;,,Proverbs 24:16…I will not be checking this site again…may we all grow in the grace and knowledge of God..good bye…
The title of the post is called I’m not a sinner saved by grace. I am simply saved by grace.
Every born again believer can make a choice to sin or not to sin. I’m simply making the choice not to sin, or not to disobey the Lord.
This in no way implies that everyone will make this choice. It is possible to be overtaken in a fault, but this is not willful or continual sin, and that is what my writing addresses.
My writing in no way implies that if someone sin they are not saved. It does imply that they are not sinners, they are disobedient. Sinners don’t know they are sinning, saints do.
Any born again believer replying to this post should know that because many do sin continually, does not mean they have to continually sin. There is a choice and that choice is to choose Jesus and not sin. Don’t trust in your inability, trust in God’s ability.
I am sorry for those who will not exercise their faith to believe a life without sin is possible. Most everyone who has replied have demonstrated their faith in the inability of Born again believers not to sin. This is a shame as we believe in an all powerful God, but we can’t believe an all powerful God can keep us from sin.
All I have written have been exercised and demonstrated by the Lord living through me. I can do nothing of myself, but the Lord does it through me, and if you let him he will do it through you as well.
This will entail you denying yourself completely, staying in the Presence of the Lord, because in the presence of the Lord no sin will dwell. This means you will have to live in the presence of the Lord, which you are already doing if the Holy Ghost lives in you. This is accomplished in the spirit not the flesh. All I’m saying is that life without sin is possible for the born again believer.
Believe it or not.
Blessings
We are in right standing with God positionally….What is sanctification? Is it simply one of those big, “Christianese,” words we like to toss around to impress our hearers? Christians are often guilty of doing so. At times the word isn’t adequately defined for hearers because the meaning isn’t clear in the mind of the speaker. What does the word mean as it is used in the Bible?
The Bible speaks of sanctification process in three separate tenses: past, present, and future. The Bible also speaks of sanctification, as applied to the Christian, in two distinct manners: positional and progressive (or actual ). A working definition of sanctification is to be separated from sin and dedicated to God, literally, the state of being set apart. The words translated from the Greek to the English words “saint,” “sanctification,” and “holiness,” all have this root meaning of separation from sin and dedication to God.
All Christians, according to the terminology used in the Bible, are “saints,” though the recorded behavior of many is less than saintly. Any person who has decided to follow Christ is a saint, even though that person still may have some worldly ways about him or her. Those ways do not make one any less a “saint.” In 1 Corinthians 1:2 Paul refers to the Christians of Corinth as “sanctified” and “holy.” If you have read through the Corinthian correspondence,
you know the behavior of those Christians was less than holy. Yet positionally they were sanctified and holy. In fact part of Paul’s reason for writing was to bring the Corinthian Christians’ actions into line with their position.
The Bible speaks of sanctification in the past tense. In doing so, it is speaking of that which occurred at the moment of salvation. At that very moment the Christian was separated from sin and dedicated to God. This is “positional” sanctification.
God does a work of cleansing at the new birth, as 1 Corinthians 6:11 makes clear. God sees the new Christian as being completely separated from sin and totally dedicated to himself. God no longer sees that person as a sinner, though he or she still commits occasional acts of sin. God sets the Christian on a new course of life.
If you have been a Christian any length of time you should know the difference between “positional” and “actual” or “progressive” sanctification–though you may not have defined it as such in your mind. Positionally God sees you as completely separated from sin and totally dedicated to him, but you know better (or should know better). You know that you are not always totally dedicated to God. Sometimes you do things for selfish reasons. At times you may entertain less than holy thoughts.
The reality is, you are still dealing with sin in your life–we all are. Which brings us to another way the Bible speaks of sanctification, in the present tense as an ongoing work.
As we grow in the Christian life, those times of giving in to temptation should become less frequent. Entertaining less than holy thoughts should occur more infrequently. In short, we should actually become set apart from sin, dedicated to God. We are progressively becoming what he has already declared us to be. We are in the process of really, truly becoming holy, sanctified. Progressive sanctification begins the moment of salvation and continues throughout the life of the Christian (Philippians 1:6).
Positional sanctification is completely God’s work. He separates the Christian from sin and sets that person apart for himself. Progressive or actual sanctification occurs as the result of a working partnership with God. As He allows our faults to be revealed, we work to overcome those faults with the aid of the Holy Spirit. One primary means of being sanctified is the study and application of the Word, the Bible, to our lives (John 17:17, Ephesians 5: 25-27). Another primary method in doing so is through the practice of self-control. Many sins are the result of our giving in to bodily appetites. Progressive sanctification takes places when we take control (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4; 2 Peter 1:4-8; and 2 Peter 3:18). Each time we do so we become more holy, more separated from sin, more dedicated to God. In this sense, sanctification is within our control. We can choose self-control and denial of fleshly desires or we can give in to those desires.
The goal is absolute sinless perfection–a goal which we will never see completed in this life. That is why the Bible also speaks of sanctification in the future tense. The pervasiveness of sin is such that we can never fully eradicate it in this life. We all have sin in areas of our lives that we don’t, at this moment, know we have.
I have met some who believe they are now living in a state of perfection in which they no longer commit acts of sin. In reality, these people change the definition of sin. They label it a “mistake,” or say “I was amiss,” instead of simply calling their failures sin, which they are. Such fallacious thinking stands in direct contradiction of the Bible. 1 John 1:8 (NIV) says “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” A close walk with God reveals how far short we actually fall. Progressive or actual sanctification involves, first of all, our willingness to admit failure. Secondly it involves our willingness to do something about it, our willingness to change.
Sanctification is a growth process in the life of each Christian. It begins at the moment of salvation (and is positionally complete at that moment) and continues throughout the life of the believer (Philippians 1:6) until the day of Christ Jesus. That ongoing work is a partnership between the believer and God (2 Corinthians 7:1), done out of reverence for God. One day, at Christ’s return or when we pass from this life the work will finally be completed, we will be completely sanctified (1Thessalonians 3:13). Only then will the work be complete. Only then will we truly be blameless in holiness–completely, actually, fully sanctified. Until that time we are to pursue perfection with our whole being, yet always aware of how far short we fall.
I love you James,..take care..we all are learning..
Sanctification, Biblically Speaking
by Thomas R. Fletcher
A few years ago I would have been spewing the same intellectual nonsense.
1 John 1:10 states the following: “If we say that we have not sinned (past tense), we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
We have already concluded that all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.
Paul was dealing in his day with the same dysfunction we are dealing with today in the Body of Christ; peoples intellect. The Lord had delivered them out of the bondage of sin, but they were living like they were still bound to sin. So Paul in all the scriptures used began to speak into them who they are now, not who they were before accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
I would suggest that my fellow brothers and sisters read the scriptures again, but this time ask for revelation from God.
The writing you posted above sounds like the writers own intellectual beliefs, and not revelations from the Lord. My writings are based on revelations from the spirit of God, not what I think.
We in our own power will never be able to obtain what I’m talking about, but through the power of the Holy Ghost and Jesus Christ we can do all things. It is through the Power of the Holy Ghost that we obtain the power to deny our own desires and wills. Then live a life free from sin.
Don’t try to reconcile this in your intellect, because you will never obtain it by intellect. You will only obtain this by revelation and faith.
Blessings to you.
James..you keep forgetting that we are humans; The God that created us made provisions for us as humans to reach a closeness with God…and everyone;s walk with God is different in the ways that only HE knows best for us to reach the plan HE has for us with the help of the Holy Spirit;;therefore I do not believe it is correct for you to deem those who may not be where you are with the Lord wrong.. for God does with each of us as HE will..in respect to progression..yet as long as we are in these bodies will will not be perfect, and Jesus Christ returns and we are changed from mortal to immortality through Christ Jesus The Anointed One…Peace my brother for the end of the matter is that we serve God and keep HIS commandments..Ecclesiastes…
My Dear Angellistic,
Everyone is entitled to what they believe, and in the Lord we are only limited by our belief. I simply believe that through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ we have been restored to our original standing with the Lord; if we receive him as our personal savior. It simply amazes me that some would defend the very thing that the Lord hates; sin.
Many who have commented find it inconceivable that one could live without sin, and yet one can if they die to this world and live unto God. It’s not a matter of differences of opinion, it’s a matter of belief.
Thank you so much for your comments I really appreciate it, and feel that this dialog should continue on a greater scale.
Blessings and love in Christ.
Now maybe you are saying that you have grown through your trials and mistakes,,because ,,only God’s ways are perfect..everything HE did and does is perfect..so if you are simply saying that your faith has been made strong..I can ascertain that…
Yes, we move from faith to faith, and from glory to glory. I understand that many can not move past their physical limitations, but the Lord sent the same spirit that raised Jesus from the grave to transform us from mere men into supernatural spirit beings, and said nothing shall be impossible to you if you only believe.
Your faith will dictate what you believe to be possible. Jesus told us to be perfect even as our father which is in heaven is perfect. Your faith will determine if you believe Jesus’ words enough to believe you can be perfect through him or not. Why do we say we believe in Jesus and are Christians, but can’t believe the smallest things he said? If you think living a life without sin is impossible to you it will be.
Blessings
I am just a little confused. I read your original post and some of the comments and replies that followed. Here’s where I am confused. Are you saying that now that you are saved, you don’t ever commit sins?
Curt, the thing is that so called Christians believe that because they do sin or are sinning, they have to continue to sin, and nothing could be further from the truth. I am saying that it is possible to live a Born-Again life without sinning. That we could live for God and not do the things he has commanded us not to do.
To answer your question: Yes I do live a life without committing sin. It took a long time to get here, and I am not saying that it is easy simply that it’s possible. I don’t and can’t do this in my own power, but through the power of the Holy Ghost and faith I do this.
One more thing: Because one chooses to believe in the possibility of life without sin, does not mean that they no longer struggle with the temptation of sin.
I believe by faith in Jesus Christ and the gift of the Holy Ghost that I can live a life without sin. I believe that if everyone who names the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal savior, would truly believe that they too will find they can live without sin. If one does not believe, they will not obtain, and it is impossible to please God without faith.
I also forgot to answer your question: If Jesus came to save sinners and we are sinners saved by grace, is Jesus’ coming and death in vain? For the scripture says that he came to save sinners, we therefore say we are saved; what are we saved from if we remain sinners.”, and the answer is ETERNAL HELL, not the removal of sin. The scripture does not support your statement. You are using scripture to create an idea of your own…
But sin will cause us to go to hell. So how can we still have sin and escape eternal hell? Your apologetic gospel, what does the Lord have to apologize for? Nothing. We will agree to disagree on this point, because my job is to speak what the Lord reveals, not debate what you think or believe.
Your use of scripture is taken out of context : 1John3:9 is referring to Jesus Christ, not man. No “man” has ever been born “of God” except Jesus Christ. We are only born “in his image” (Gen 1)
Your use of 2 Cor 5:13 refers to “justification” not the removal of sin. Look it up in an apologetic book. The only reason why God sees us as justified is because he now sees us throught the blood of Christ, because Christ’s blood was the propitiation of our sin. In other words, our debt was “paid” because we will always (not useing the term were) be incapable of being free from sin. If we are always incapable from being freed from sin we are thus sinners still. I realize you desire to only use Scripture to understand what the Bible is saying, however apologetic materials are build to weed out the lies of the Bible, which you are (hopefully unknowingly) creating.
You have corrupted every use of scripture to support your point. Paul did not say “..of whom I am the worst…” [1 Tim 1:15-16] to say that because he believed in Christ he is no longer a sinner. He said so because as He stated LATER in the scripture ” I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.” [1 Timothy 1:15-16] Paul clearly states that God is providing “unlimited patience”. Now, if God had saved him already….why would he still need to have patience? The word “am a sinner” describes a state of being…not a state of being sinless. Romans 6:2 actually reads: “May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?” does not mean that sin is dead, rather it is refering to the atrocity of man continuing to sin after being released from the LAW. “But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.” [Romans 7:6 KJV] and any other version states the same idea: the Law was this “sin death” you are referring to in that man is no longer bound by it and never completed in it, not the removal of sin from man. If we make the statement that we “choose to sin”, then we also have to make the statement that we “choose not to sin”. If we choose not to sin, then we are partially responsible for our salvation. If we are partially responsible for our salvation then Christ is not entirely responsible for our salvation, then the meaning of Christ’s death is lowered – He only partially saved us. I see that you are a very insightful person, and I am glad your faith is alive. You can use that power for a more productive purpose in Christ. Rely, as you stated, on the Scriptures alone. As a sister in Christ, I feel (as I was moved by reading your rants) it is my duty now to help you by encouraging you not to begin by proving other people’s statements wrong. Begin by proving Christ’s statements right. His is the only truth, and whenever you desire clarification that is where you will find it. Begining a search with a presupposition that some “person” is wrong will likely always be fruitless. Begin only with the Word and a loving heart to know the truth, not with the sinful judgement as you have. Only then, with love and earnestness, will you have undefiled revelation.
In Him,
Sara
If we are always incapable of being freed from sin, then Jesus died in-vain. Why free us from something that we could never be freed from in the first place. Then is our faith vain, because we were never saved from sin, but Jesus died to redeem us from sin. However, you say that we can never be freed from sin. Doesn’t quite make sense to me. In your what I would say theory, we will always have a sinful nature. That is you belief and this is based on faith, so if you believe you can never ever be more than a sinner, then so be it. However, I know that it is possilbe to live without sin. You can’t make me doubt what I know, or what I’ve seen.
When I say I am a “sinner saved by grace” I do not necessarily mean that I am a deliberate sinner. I only acknowledge that in spite of my best efforts I am still imperfect in one or other way. The problem today is that we have so many believers in the body of Christ who consider themselves holy yet they do the very things that heathen do. We have been taught that God considers us holy not based on what we do – in one sense, yes that’s right. But at least at some point of time later, I’d expect that people who claim they are holy actually walk in a way that is holy. If life remains the same (in sin) throughout, then I’d be only making a theoretical confession of faith. The Holiness that I’d talk about is only virtual and something that doesn’t exist in reality.
In that sense, I would say, considering myself as a ‘sinner saved by grace’ is better. Because when I say that, I am recognizing that in spite of my best efforts, I can still go wrong. And so I still sense a need for God’s grace and forgiveness. Above all I am recognizing that I am only human and not God – the infinitely holy God.
If we call ourselves holy, then where is the recognition of our sins? Where is the need for God’s grace and forgiveness? I have had experiences of dealing with people who boldly affirm they are holy and claim that they only do whatever God wants them to do (yes they have made their best efforts) but unable to realize that they still CAN sin (and of course they did) and still they need forgiveness.
The term “sin” is ambiguous because it has been translated into English. The term is simultaneously used for an action and for a state. The action, transgression of the law of God, leads to the condition of being in the state, separation from God. Because of sin (action) the world is in sin (state) and we were separated from God from the very beginning. Yet Paul tells us in Romans 5 that through Christ’s sacrifice (action) we are reconciled (state) to God. Paul never claims that by accepting Christ’s atonement we stop making mistakes (action); rather, he says that our sin is forgiven; quoting Psalm 32, it is not counted against us. In Romans 3 it is made abundantly clear that no one (before or after acceptance of the Gospel) is without sin; the explanation shows that this refers to the action. Yet, says Paul, there is a righteousness that is apart from the law: that is a sinlessness which is not simply obeying (action) God’s commandments. This is a sinless state that comes from God through faith in Jesus. We are justified by faith apart from the law. This does not excuse transgression of the law in any way; rather, it acknowledges that the law is what we do to stay close to God, and forgiveness is what Christ does to close the gap. Excuses do not justify sin (action), for nothing justifies sin (action). Instead, Christ’s atonement justifies souls; we are reconciled to God as though we had not sinned.
Romans 7:14-25 brings it home. Paul acknowledges that as a man saved by the grace of Jesus, he wants to do only good, yet continues to sin. His mind is a slave to God’s law, but his sinful nature keeps him ever a slave to sin (action). We shall remain imperfect until the final day when evil is abolished and we are made new, perfect and sinless.
1 John 3:9 states: “Whosoever is born of God (by spirit birth) does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God”.
Jesus said: “If you can believe, all things are possible to them that believe”. Mark 9:23
Romans 6:2 “God forbid, (that we should continue in sin). How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”
Romans 6:16 “Know you not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness”?
Romans 6:6-7 states: “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death (through baptism), we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified (dead) with him (Jesus), that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin”.
According to the revelation given to me, the times that Paul spoke of being a sinner, or of his weakness; he was given a testimony of where he had come from, not where he was. If you really read Paul’s writings with the spirit of God, you will begin to see the difference in Paul as he continued walking, teaching, and preaching with the Lord. Therefore, I will agree that a person has to grow in faith to walk without committing sin (although I believe that one can start living by faith without sin immediately after being filled with the Holy Ghost), or simply die to yourself that the Holy Spirit can live through you, because he does not crave sin.
Mistakes (mis-takes) are not sin. Sin is sin therefore, as a child of God you don’t make a mistake and sin; you choose to sin. When you know what you are doing you can’t say it was a mistake. Just as you choose to disobey, you can choose to obey.
A believing man and woman who had sex out of wedlock did not make a mistake, they made a choice. Therefore, we choose to sin and if you choose to sin you can choose not to sin; for we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.
The problem is not that we can’t live without sinning, but that we don’t possess the faith to believe we can live a life free from sin. If we say we can’t live without sin, then we make Jesus a liar, because he said for with God nothing is impossible. That if we have faith nothing (no-thing) shall be impossible to us.
I choose to believe that I can live a life free from sin. That’s why I’m not a Sinner Saved by Grace.
If you are saying that you do not sin..then you are saying that Jesus Christ the Anointed One died in vain, and that God is a liar when HIS word says in Romans 3:9… What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.Romans 3:22-24 that says 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 2 3for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. …Being born sinners results in the fact that we all sin. Notice the progression in Romans 5:12: sin entered the world through Adam, death follows sin, death comes to all people, all people sin because they inherit sin from Adam. Because “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we need a perfect, sinless sacrifice to wash away our sin, something we are powerless to do on our own. Thankfully, Jesus Christ is the Savior from sin! Our sin has been crucified on the cross of Jesus, and now “in Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7). God, in His infinite wisdom, has provided the remedy for the sin we inherit, and that remedy is available to everyone: “Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you” (Acts 13:38)…God takes us faith to faith, and glory to glory..if we never make a mistake how can we grow and be thankful and Praise God for delivering us from our situations and circumstances so that we can grow…in love..take care james.. One more thing.. I have sinned..yet my belief in God’s promises has set me free for The Most High God has healed me from breast cancer and anxiety..and I Praise His Great Name..His word also says that If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.1 John 1:9.. read entire chapters so that you may be sure that what God is saying is not taken out of context.. to be righteous means right standing with The Almighty God..Jehovah Yahweh… God bless
I am not careful to respond as I now know the power of God to forgive sins, and cleans us of all unrighteousness, through Jesus Christ, and to keep us from sin. It is amazing to me how we use scripture to keep us in slavery to sin when Jesus died to put away our sins.
Romans 3:9: “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin.”
Paul in the passage above was speaking to the Romans and Jews who had recently received the Lord as their personal savor. He made the comparison that whether Jew or Gentile all are under sin, but as in the 25th verse: “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God“. Now remission means the end of a condition sin being our condition before we come to Christ.
Romans 3:23: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” Your use of this passage is correct in that we all have sinned (past tense), but does not mention that this is a continual condition after we accept the Lord as our personal savior. I could give you many scripture which support the fact that we can live without sin, much more than you can find that says we will always be sinners.
I did not say that I have never sinned that would be a lie, but I do contend for the faith that it is possible to live a life free from sin. I have experienced it and it seem to me that you would like me to say otherwise simply because you can’t believe that it is possible. If you don’t believe it’s possible to you it will never be possible. So a man thinks in his heart so is he.
We love to have a form of Godliness, but we constantly deny the power thereof. The power of a sinless God to send his sinless son to die on a tree and redeem a sinful world from sin; that we could live the life he demonstrated while he was alive. It is impossible to please God without faith, and the whole walk of salvation is by faith. Why do we reject something that is so simple for God to do?
Hear me: IT IS POSSIBLE TO LIVE A LIFE WITHOUT SINNING. IT IS POSSIBLE TO OBEY GOD IN ALL HE COMMANDS. If we are sinning then we make a choice to disobey God. How can you defend disobedience to God?
For the record sin is a choice once you have receive the Lord as your personal savior. You can’t mistake and have sex without marriage, that’s a choice. You can’t mistake and kill someone, although you can accidentally kill someone. Mistake means to misunderstand something, or to mistake as in identity. Therefore, you can mistake someone’s identity and only realize it after you made the choice to kill, hit, demean, persecute, or lie on them. What we call mistakes in the body of Christ are actually choices.
Make the choice to believe the Lord and obey him.
Blessings
Are you saying that under no circumstances do you sin, ever? If so you have reached a state of perfection. Do you never think a bad thought, wish a bad thing? We all fall short of the glory of God and Pauls says I am the worst of sinners, not I was the worst of sinners. If what you say is true what is the need for Grace as once we have died to sin grace is no longer required.
Nothing in the scriptures that you have quoted states that we are to remain sinners after that you have received the forgiveness of sin. The scripture says that Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. However, nowhere in that scripture does it state that Paul remained a sinner. This is a true saying of Paul, that we have a form of Godliness but we deny the power thereof (2nd Timothy 3:5). If you believe that God is almighty and sent Jesus into the world to Save sinners, and take away sin (read Romans 6th Chapter) why is it so hard to believe that it is possible through Jesus Christ to live without sin?
Sin is of the Devil it is a fruit of the Devil, for the Devil sinned in the beginning therefore, whosoever sin does the work of Satan. Do you believe this? There can be no compromise for no sin shall enter the Kingdom of God. You can either make excuses and use the Word of God to justify sin, or you can believe the scriptures and renounce all the hidden things of dishonesty and sin. The choice is yours.
Mark I found it interesting, though not surprising that James chose not to answer your question: “Are you saying that under no circumstances do you sin, ever?”
My post addresses the fact that Saints of God do not have to sin, not that they don’t sin. If they sin this does not make them a sinner saved by grace. Every Child of God has a choice, and it is a choice to sin. If you believe that you can’t go without sinning, then by all means sin.
I will believe in Christ Jesus’ ability to keep me from sin, if I allow Him to. I have lived and I have seen His power to do so, and this is all my post is about.
The apostle Paul would defintely say we are sinners. See: http://about.metrowest.cc/?p=267
Then I would say you should re-read Paul’s writings, especially Romans the 6th chapter and don’t depend on your intelect to understand, but depend on the spirit of God for revelation. The scripture plainly states that we are not sinners once we have accepted Jesus as our personal savior, are filled with the Holy Spirit, and die to our own ways. This is what Paul’s writtings are all about. Read them again and seek for spiritual understanding not religious teachings which seek to blind and not enlighten to the truth of the Gospel.
I’m with Paul:
I don’t mean to say that I have already achieved these things or that I have already reached perfection. But I press on to possess that perfection for which Christ Jesus first possessed me. (Philippians 3:12 NLT)
Sounds like some self righteous words from the pits of hell to me. This is why no one is interested in Jesus. He loves them so much, but you make it seem like an imperfect person must perform to military perfection once they discover that Jesus Christ gave his life to cover theirs and your sins. You and I will sin daily, whether or not we want to believe that statement, it is true. Only a self absorbed haughty spirited jerk would think once they are saved, they are no longer a sinner. God does not care if it is one sin or 10 or 1 million. God also does not care what the sin is, unless it is blasphemy against the holy spirit. If your statement is true, then no one will inherit the kingdom of heaven, because I can re-assure you, you have sinned today. People like you are exactly why Jesus came to this Earth. You are a Scribe and a Pharisee who complicates and makes sinners doubt their salvation through your authoritarian approach to salvation. I thank God that he saved me, a sinner, because I would have no hope of eternity without his salvation.
I pray you see how twisted your interpretation of God’s word is. Your interpretation makes being a Christian seem like we are righteous country club members when we are no better than the lost. If I were lost, and I read what you wrote, I would say, that Christian is an arrogant snob who thinks he is better than me. Perhaps you should think about that the next time you choose to write such a twisted interpretation of God’s word.
Get thee behind me Satan!!
I see that you are clearly still living under the rudiments of the flesh if you see self-righteousness in my writing.
Christopher W. Brown, Are you God that you know the spirit of a man’s heart? Only God can judge a man’s righteous deeds for he knows the motive of his heart where you do not. You are calling good evil and evil good – Isaiah 5:20. This is why many are on the road of destruction. If you sin daily you are a child of the devil. Those who sin are the Scribes and Pharisees! Sinners don’t have salvation. They are still in bondage. Interesting Closure of get behind me Satan when you sin daily. Sounds contradicting when Satan is your close friend. HYPOCRITE!